The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Harry should have trusted Ramirez
Mira:
--- Quote from: SerScot on January 19, 2023, 03:23:25 PM ---Harry’s honesty and forthrightness would have promoted trust… from Ramirez to Harry. :)
--- End quote ---
Would it have? Under normal circumstances I would agree, but since his experience with Molly,
circumstances are no longer normal for Ramirez. After what happened, he no longer trusts the Winter Court, which is a normal reaction. Harry is part of the Winter Court since he is the Winter Knight. That's what is the main factor for Ramirez no longer trusting Harry, that, and I am sure one or more of Harry's enemies on the Senior Council doing their best to reinforce that. I don't think there is anything Harry can do or say at the moment to change that. These are truths that Carlos himself has to arrive at. And since Molly wasn't warned before hand by Mab about sex with mortals, I think it is all part of some long range plan of hers to ultimately divide both Molly and Harry from the mortal world.
SerScot:
--- Quote from: Mira on January 19, 2023, 04:48:56 PM --- Would it have? Under normal circumstances I would agree, but since his experience with Molly,
circumstances are no longer normal for Ramirez. After what happened, he no longer trusts the Winter Court, which is a normal reaction. Harry is part of the Winter Court since he is the Winter Knight. That's what is the main factor for Ramirez no longer trusting Harry, that, and I am sure one or more of Harry's enemies on the Senior Council doing their best to reinforce that. I don't think there is anything Harry can do or say at the moment to change that. These are truths that Carlos himself has to arrive at. And since Molly wasn't warned before hand by Mab about sex with mortals, I think it is all part of some long range plan of hers to ultimately divide both Molly and Harry from the mortal world.
--- End quote ---
Fair point. Gggggrrrr…
I like Ramirez. I hate that he’s being cut away from Harry like this.
Mira:
--- Quote from: SerScot on January 19, 2023, 05:33:52 PM ---Fair point. Gggggrrrr…
I like Ramirez. I hate that he’s being cut away from Harry like this.
--- End quote ---
As do I, but when Jim makes a significant point of writing a whole short story about how it happened.. Then we find in the first novel in years that Carlos is still crippled by the event, followed by the his attitude towards Harry at their final meeting, it is a set up for the future. What is sad, I doubt that Harry even knows what happened between Carlos and Molly, so is clueless as to why his friend is suddenly so cold towards him.
g33k:
I'm still WAG'ing that there's some hope Ramirez still trusts Harry, has the POV that Harry is doing a deep-cover penetration of the Bad Guys to root out the White Council corruption & traitor(s). Carlos is just going through the motions, paying lip-service to the "Harry Dresden is an incipient warlock... or worse!" party line amongst the more narrow-minded & reactionary (or just frightened) of the White Council.
I'm going back to White Night, where (in the Raith Deeps) he says:
--- Quote ---Oh come on, man... You're lying to me. You're lying to the Council... I'm not an idiot... You can barely get by in Latin, but you speak Ghoul? Ancient Etruscan? ... You're involved with these things. More than you should be. You know them too well. Which is a really fucking disturbing thing to realize, considering we're talking about a race of mind-benders... this whole thing feels more like a setup every second.
--- End quote ---
But then in the final chapter -- which is a series of "wrap-things-up" vignettes, of which Carlos' is the 4th -- they have their heart-to-heart, which includes:
--- Quote ---Harry: "Gee. A Warden doesn't trust me. That's a switch."
Ramirez blinked at me. "What?"
Harry: "I had Morgan sticking his nose into every corner of my existence for my entire adult life."
Ramirez: "All hail the drama queen. Harry... I'm talking about you not trusting me, man."
Harry: "Uh. What?"
Ramirez: "...You think whoever is leaking information to the vampires is pretty high up, and the less anyone in the Council knows about what you're doing, the better... so you can't trust our own people, but "you're cutting deals with the vampires..." He narrowed his eyes. "You think you might be able to find the traitor coming in from the other side."
<snip a bit about Marcone's dealings>
Ramirez spread his hands weakly. "Was that so damned hard, Dresden? To talk to me?"
Harry: "No."
Ramirez snorted gently. "Idiot."
Harry: "So, think I should come clean to the Merlin?"
Ramirez: "Are you kidding? He hates your guts. He'd have you declared a traitor, locked up, and executed before you got through the first paragraph... But I'm with you, man. All the way."
--- End quote ---
So, we see here the deep-cover plot hatched between Harry & Carlos. Carlos expects Harry to cut shady deals, to hang out with monsters, to alienate the White Council and get in tight with the Bad Guys(tm). And Carlos is doing his part, acting like he's losing faith in Harry; even taking steps to "push Harry away" and further demonstrate his "reactionary bona fides." In short, Carlos is acting like he's becoming a Morgan-esque hardcase. On his side, he's hoping that the "Bad Guys" will slip up, and he'll spot some clue(s) as to whose loyalties lay with the Black Council rather than the White.
And we see that Carlos knows Harry can be an idiot about these things. So, while Carlos can't be 100% certain Harry hasn't actually gone Sith-mode, he has seen Harry go to the mat repeatedly... always in favor of humans, and the underdog... and always against the Bad Guys(tm).
Moreover, I suspect Carlos gives a fair bit of weight to the opinions of the Knights of the Cross, who are all friendly with Harry... and that speaks immensely to which side of a fight Harry's going to be on (also, I suspect, it means the Bad Guys will never really be willing to trust Harry, and he's not going to get deep into any of their councils).
SerScot:
--- Quote from: g33k on January 19, 2023, 11:24:56 PM ---I'm still WAG'ing that there's some hope Ramirez still trusts Harry, has the POV that Harry is doing a deep-cover penetration of the Bad Guys to root out the White Council corruption & traitor(s). Carlos is just going through the motions, paying lip-service to the "Harry Dresden is an incipient warlock... or worse!" party line amongst the more narrow-minded & reactionary (or just frightened) of the White Council.
I'm going back to White Night, where (in the Raith Deeps) he says:
But then in the final chapter -- which is a series of "wrap-things-up" vignettes, of which Carlos' is the 4th -- they have their heart-to-heart, which includes:
So, we see here the deep-cover plot hatched between Harry & Carlos. Carlos expects Harry to cut shady deals, to hang out with monsters, to alienate the White Council and get in tight with the Bad Guys(tm). And Carlos is doing his part, acting like he's losing faith in Harry; even taking steps to "push Harry away" and further demonstrate his "reactionary bona fides." In short, Carlos is acting like he's becoming a Morgan-esque hardcase. On his side, he's hoping that the "Bad Guys" will slip up, and he'll spot some clue(s) as to whose loyalties lay with the Black Council rather than the White.
And we see that Carlos knows Harry can be an idiot about these things. So, while Carlos can't be 100% certain Harry hasn't actually gone Sith-mode, he has seen Harry go to the mat repeatedly... always in favor of humans, and the underdog... and always against the Bad Guys(tm).
Moreover, I suspect Carlos gives a fair bit of weight to the opinions of the Knights of the Cross, who are all friendly with Harry... and that speaks immensely to which side of a fight Harry's going to be on (also, I suspect, it means the Bad Guys will never really be willing to trust Harry, and he's not going to get deep into any of their councils).
--- End quote ---
I really hope you’re right. But being brutalized by Molly… who Harry trained may really have screwed Ramirez up.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version