The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Harry should have trusted Ramirez
Mira:
--- Quote from: g33k on January 19, 2023, 11:24:56 PM ---I'm still WAG'ing that there's some hope Ramirez still trusts Harry, has the POV that Harry is doing a deep-cover penetration of the Bad Guys to root out the White Council corruption & traitor(s). Carlos is just going through the motions, paying lip-service to the "Harry Dresden is an incipient warlock... or worse!" party line amongst the more narrow-minded & reactionary (or just frightened) of the White Council.
I'm going back to White Night, where (in the Raith Deeps) he says:
But then in the final chapter -- which is a series of "wrap-things-up" vignettes, of which Carlos' is the 4th -- they have their heart-to-heart, which includes:
So, we see here the deep-cover plot hatched between Harry & Carlos. Carlos expects Harry to cut shady deals, to hang out with monsters, to alienate the White Council and get in tight with the Bad Guys(tm). And Carlos is doing his part, acting like he's losing faith in Harry; even taking steps to "push Harry away" and further demonstrate his "reactionary bona fides." In short, Carlos is acting like he's becoming a Morgan-esque hardcase. On his side, he's hoping that the "Bad Guys" will slip up, and he'll spot some clue(s) as to whose loyalties lay with the Black Council rather than the White.
And we see that Carlos knows Harry can be an idiot about these things. So, while Carlos can't be 100% certain Harry hasn't actually gone Sith-mode, he has seen Harry go to the mat repeatedly... always in favor of humans, and the underdog... and always against the Bad Guys(tm).
Moreover, I suspect Carlos gives a fair bit of weight to the opinions of the Knights of the Cross, who are all friendly with Harry... and that speaks immensely to which side of a fight Harry's going to be on (also, I suspect, it means the Bad Guys will never really be willing to trust Harry, and he's not going to get deep into any of their councils).
--- End quote ---
White Knight was a while back.. The thing with Molly affected Carlos big time.. The Carlos at the end of Battle Ground isn't the same man as the one we met in White Night.
--- Quote ---really hope you’re right. But being brutalized by Molly… who Harry trained may really have screwed Ramirez up.
--- End quote ---
Agreed.
vincentric:
This is the thing that most puzzles me about how people react to Harry. Anybody who researches him has to know that he is on a first name, Christmas dinner, emergency call list basis with all the Knights of the Cross of this past 20 years but they still want to classify him as one step from Kemmler 2.0. The level of distrust in the face of such obvious evidence just baffles me.
Mira:
--- Quote from: vincentric on January 20, 2023, 08:56:39 PM ---This is the thing that most puzzles me about how people react to Harry. Anybody who researches him has to know that he is on a first name, Christmas dinner, emergency call list basis with all the Knights of the Cross of this past 20 years but they still want to classify him as one step from Kemmler 2.0. The level of distrust in the face of such obvious evidence just baffles me.
--- End quote ---
Agreed. Trust is a two way street after all. In other words Carlos should have trusted Harry.. The real low blow was when Ramirez blamed the loss of the other Wardens to the Black Court on Harry.
Harry had just saved everyone, and Carlos tells Harry that he should have talked to him? No wonder Michael cussed like a drunken sailor in several languages in terms that would even make a drunken sailor blush...
KurtinStGeorge:
--- Quote from: Mira on January 20, 2023, 09:40:25 PM ---
Agreed. Trust is a two way street after all. In other words Carlos should have trusted Harry.. The real low blow was when Ramirez blamed the loss of the other Wardens to the Black Court on Harry.
Harry had just saved everyone, and Carlos tells Harry that he should have talked to him? No wonder Michael cussed like a drunken sailor in several languages in terms that would even make a drunken sailor blush...
--- End quote ---
That is why I thought Harry should have challenged Carlos at the end of Battle Ground. I really would have liked Harry to have stood up for himself more forcefully. It's why I suggested Harry should have said something like this; "OK Carlos, you want to know my secrets, I'll tell you one of them. Remember when I testified for Morgan and unmasked Peabody as a traitor? You were there and helped Eb find Peabody's magic ink. Well, there was something I kept to myself. There was a second wizard working with Peabody. I didn't have any solid evidence I could present to the Council and I don't know who it was; he or she must have known a different Way to get to the island than Peabody did, but I know someone else was there. For all I know it could have been you, but I don't think you would betray the Council so I'm willing to risk telling you this. Now ask yourself, who will you talk to about this new information I just gave you? Whoever on the Council you report to or might want to consult with could be the traitor or they might unknowingly tell the traitor what you reported to them. And that's probably the least dangerous secret that I am keeping and none of them have anything to do with Drakul. There's nothing I could have told you that would have changed what happened to Yoshino, Bill or Chandler. You can believe me or not. One day you will find out the truth and feel really stupid when you do."
I really didn't like the way Harry took that abuse and only made a somewhat cryptic reply back to Carlos in return. There are probably a number of other replies Harry might have made that would have been better than what he came up with. Even something like. "Yes, I keep secrets Carlos. So does everyone of significance on the Council. One thing I can tell you is none of my secrets have anything to do with Drakul..." and continued from there.
Mira:
--- Quote ---I really didn't like the way Harry took that abuse and only made a somewhat cryptic reply back to Carlos in return. There are probably a number of other replies Harry might have made that would have been better than what he came up with. Even something like. "Yes, I keep secrets Carlos. So does everyone of significance on the Council. One thing I can tell you is none of my secrets have anything to do with Drakul..." and continued from there.
--- End quote ---
Agreed, only excuse I can see as to why Harry didn't hit back, is between exhaustion, his injuries [remember a Winter Knight can block the pain, but not the damage], and his grief over Murphy, Harry was very vulnerable... Carlos simply kicked him when he was down, as did the Council.
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