Author Topic: True Teleportation  (Read 4546 times)

Offline Second Aristh

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True Teleportation
« on: September 24, 2021, 12:58:28 AM »
Battle Ground introduces a new concept to the Dresden Files, namely actual teleportation.  Before BG, there had been quick travel via Ways in the NN, but with that method practitioners still moved normally as they tunneled through the NN to emerge in a different place on Earth.  The closest we have seen to teleportation before BG is perhaps Lea/Odin's lightning gate in Changes, but even then it seemed more like a compressing of the NN's nebulous nature than true teleportation.

So, how exactly does it work, and why is this the first time we've seen something so seemingly useful?  With Namshiel and Drakul as the only ones seen to have done so, perhaps it takes too much skill to be widely available.  Even so, it seems like it would be useful for some of the big players to keep in their back pocket as an option.  Namshiel doing it through Marcone seems to point to it not taking a mountain of energy to power. 

If skill really was the main issue, would the Archive be able to do it?  That might have come in handy in the Shedd fight.  It doesn't seem right that it would be beyond the Archive if Marcone can do it, but perhaps the hellfire circle is strong enough to block things.  Or maybe it's too dangerous to try without line of sight?

Does anyone have any insights in this area?


I include some of the more relevant passages from BG.
Quote from: Battle Ground Ch.12
He watched the opening exchange with the interest of a general observing children at chess, lips pursed thoughtfully. Then he took a step to the left and . . .
. . . and just freaking vanished. I don’t mean that he went behind a veil, or teleported, or opened a portal to the Nevernever. I can do those things, if I have to. This guy took a step and just up and up went away, as if stepping behind a telephone pole and never appearing on the other side. Gone. Just gone.

Except that in this case, “gone” turned out to be six inches behind me.

My ears suddenly twinged hard, like when the pressure shifts in an airplane, and the empty space behind me wasn’t empty anymore. I whirled, drawing my revolver, raising it—

—too late. Drakul caught the weapon’s barrel in the pale fingers of one hand and simply crushed it shut.

Quote from: Battle Ground Ch.34
Marcone began muttering in a language I didn’t recognize and pointed a finger at the ground twenty yards away and to his left. He indicated another position to his right with his other hand, at a point equidistant from the first, said something, and there was a crackling sound in the air, like . . . broken wind chimes, maybe.

Ethniu came out of the water with the Eye already bursting forth in a tidal roar of red energy, lashing out unstoppably at Marcone.

Marcone simply stepped to his left and vanished into a chorus of broken wind chimes—reappearing at the point he’d pointed to with his left hand, clear of the beam.

Ethniu shrieked in rage, slewing the gaze of the Eye around wantonly, though the motion was slower than it should have been and seemed to take physical effort from her straining neck muscles as she swept her gaze around, searching for Marcone. She spotted him with another scream, but he simply took a second step, vanishing from the first point of the triangle he’d indicated, and appeared in the second in another shower of clinking-crystal sounds.

Holy crap. Direct point-to-point translocation was something that the White Council kept in a section called “Highly Theoretical and Dangerous Magic” in the wizard’s library at the complex in Edinburgh. I knew, because years ago when I’d asked about it, I’d been put on the no-access list for the entire section.

Which . . . well, to be fair, probably wasn’t entirely unwise.
We shall not fail or falter, we shall not weaken or tire...Give us the tools, and we will finish the job.--Winston Churchill

Offline The_Sibelis

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Re: True Teleportation
« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2021, 01:17:11 AM »
Who says we've seen true teleportation? Marcone could have been messing with ways, he had to prep the spots he could move to, jimmying the ways perhaps? And Drakul's was very much super speed. River Shoulders proved that when he intercepted him iirc.
I'd argue the closest to teleportation we've seen is actually Mab. Besides when she's done it in reality, she did it when inducting Harry as winter night, in an in-between place that at the least isn't earth, and at best definitely takes the place of the NN of where ever it is. So her doing it there, has little choice but to be the real deal? 🤔 Would that make it more of a reality warp than anything?

Offline Second Aristh

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Re: True Teleportation
« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2021, 01:49:46 AM »
Hmm maybe super hyper speed for Drakul.  I overlooked the "or teleported" part of the quote.  River Shoulders did some sort of bigfoot tidal wave spell that blocked Drakul from vanishing like he did the first time he tried to smash him.  Even so, if it was super speed instead of teleporting, shouldn't he have been fast enough to dodge Harry's second force blast that saved River Shoulders from being sacrificed for zombies?  Is Drakul moving faster than he can perceive the rest of the world?

Marcone does specifically prep the places he can whack-a-mole away to.  Maybe it is based in Ways magic, but Harry usually remarks on portals opening, and Ways have to be closed behind you, which takes effort unless you wait for it to happen naturally (which takes longer the wider the rip in reality).




Also, as a side note that just occurred to me, the clinking chimes noise gets remarked upon more than once here.  I wonder if that could have any relationship with Hell's Bells.  I kind of doubt that Hell's Bells are any more theoretical than the Outer Gate, and they are coming from a knight of Hell.
We shall not fail or falter, we shall not weaken or tire...Give us the tools, and we will finish the job.--Winston Churchill

Offline Griffyn612

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Re: True Teleportation
« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2021, 02:04:04 AM »
Didn't ghost-Harry teleport in Ghost Story?

Edit: yeah, sort of teleportation, but he compares it to the teleportation potion from Storm Front, in the sense that he broke into pieces and then reformed elsewhere.

So I guess it depends on your definition of true teleportation. Nightcrawler is a teleporter, but he travels into a different dimension to reappear elsewhere, if I recall. Sandman Slim can teleport in a sense using a key to move through shadows.

So what's really true teleportation?
« Last Edit: September 24, 2021, 02:12:48 AM by Griffyn612 »

Offline Second Aristh

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Re: True Teleportation
« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2021, 02:30:18 AM »
True.  Good point with GS.  It didn't register with me since ghosts play by different rules, usually.

I suppose true teleportation should be defined as traveling between two distinct points without traversing a path between.  A discontinuity in location to put it in calculus terms.  We've seen slow-motion Nightcrawler-style transportation via the NN, and ghost/motion potion seem like high speed dissolution and movement before reconstituting.

Perhaps Marcone was Nightcrawler-style, just faster, but it isn't clear.
We shall not fail or falter, we shall not weaken or tire...Give us the tools, and we will finish the job.--Winston Churchill

Offline morriswalters

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Re: True Teleportation
« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2021, 02:49:56 AM »
Stopping time would have that effect.  Maeve does something similar in Proven Guilty just at a different scale.

The tinkling for Marcone sounds straight out of Star Trek.

Offline Second Aristh

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Re: True Teleportation
« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2021, 03:02:53 AM »
Stopping time would have that effect.  Maeve does something similar in Proven Guilty just at a different scale.

The tinkling for Marcone sounds straight out of Star Trek.
Time travel takes a lot of raw power that Marcone doesn't seem to have (e.g. he uses lots of weak shields against Ethniu).  I suppose time stoppage could be easier somewhat, but having enough juice might be an issue.
We shall not fail or falter, we shall not weaken or tire...Give us the tools, and we will finish the job.--Winston Churchill

Offline The_Sibelis

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Re: True Teleportation
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2021, 03:46:17 AM »
Quote
Is Drakul moving faster than he can perceive the rest of the world?
I'd think so actually. We've already seen that effect once in GS when Daniel could prep his reactions and Aristides couldn't compensate. I think Drakul might have an upper limit to his perception that's lower than his max speed. (Thinking of Fullmetal alchemist Brotherhood here)
As for the definition of teleportation.. that's a difficult subject eh? If we go by the above
Quote
true teleportation should be defined as traveling between two distinct points without traversing a path between.
then it would require a literal wormhole effect of place to place displacement. What Marcone did might qualify... I wonder, if someone was prepped and waiting if he could be intercepted doing it? If not, I'd give it to him. Even if he uses another dimension to do so, it might still fall under the definition. Kind of a personal effect of the same technique Vadderung used in CH to create the gateway.
Ghost teleportation makes me think of star trek, in that they're broken down and reformed elsewhere.. though I note, they call that a transporter not a teleporter..
*Can you "stop time" outside of the NN?

Offline morriswalters

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Re: True Teleportation
« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2021, 03:59:42 AM »
Time travel takes a lot of raw power that Marcone doesn't seem to have (e.g. he uses lots of weak shields against Ethniu).  I suppose time stoppage could be easier somewhat, but having enough juice might be an issue.
I was thinking about Drakul.

Offline Second Aristh

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Re: True Teleportation
« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2021, 04:44:14 AM »
I was thinking about Drakul.
Ah, I misunderstood.  Yeah, possibly.  For something like that, I wonder if or what he used to compensate.  Kringle launched the Wild Hunt through time off himself, pushing himself backwards in time in the process.  Kinda like Newton's third law but through time.  I think that was part of him being coy in his conversation at Mac's; he was in the past from his perspective and had ideas about what was going to happen.
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Offline groinkick

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Re: True Teleportation
« Reply #10 on: September 24, 2021, 05:38:53 AM »
Harry called it translocation.  I'm thinking that it may seem synonymous with teleportation, but I don't think it is.  Harry said he wouldn't touch it for like 40 or 50 years.  This gives you an idea of where Marcone is vs Dresden.  I think what Drakul was doing was an even higher level of magic as he didn't seem to need to set points to translocate to the way Marcone did.

Could the Archive do it? Hmm I'm not sure.  Eb who is one of the best wizards in the world has yet to display it when he could have.  It could be something that's not worth doing unless there is no other choice.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2021, 05:41:50 AM by groinkick »
Stole this from Reginald because it was so well put, and is true for me as well.

"I love this place. It was a beacon in the dark and I couldn't have made it through some of the most maddening years of my life without some great people here."  Thank you Griff and others who took up the torch.

Offline The_Sibelis

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Re: True Teleportation
« Reply #11 on: September 24, 2021, 09:04:18 PM »
Ooooh, Marcone couldn't have been using the NN, Ferro was locking all the entrances in Chicago..

Offline Second Aristh

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Re: True Teleportation
« Reply #12 on: September 24, 2021, 09:40:36 PM »
Ooooh, Marcone couldn't have been using the NN, Ferro was locking all the entrances in Chicago..
Ah, nice catch.  It's good evidence that Marcone was truly teleporting. 

As far as other alternatives, we don't get any updates on Ferro's condition during BG.  I would imagine he was struggling as much as any of the other big players.  If so, towards the end he might have been tired enough to let Marcone-sized critters slip through.
We shall not fail or falter, we shall not weaken or tire...Give us the tools, and we will finish the job.--Winston Churchill

Offline Griffyn612

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Re: True Teleportation
« Reply #13 on: September 24, 2021, 09:49:13 PM »
Ooooh, Marcone couldn't have been using the NN, Ferro was locking all the entrances in Chicago..
If I recall, Ferro was shutting down the earth, and Vadderung was shutting down everything above it. And at the time of Marcone's magic, Vadderung was laying on the ground half dead. So who knows if he was still shutting things down.

Offline Conspiracy Theorist

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Re: True Teleportation
« Reply #14 on: September 24, 2021, 10:20:25 PM »
Different types of teleportation? Different risks? This is a banned knowledge in the White Council and may be for a number of reasons.

1. It is lethal
2. It is difficult
3. It breaks one or more the laws of magic.

Classically teleportation actually invokes the destruction of the test subject and their reification in another place, essentially death and rebirth, a classic breach of the Fifth Law, meaning it’s both points 1 and 2. This may only have been realised some time AFTER it became known, leading to it’s proscription, after the formulation of the Laws. Point 2 was relevant at that point it probably required a powerful practioner, could end badly, be blocked easily by counterspells etc. The knowledge would have been lost at the practitioner level over time relegated to the library. Drakul must really have been annoyed that River Shoulders was an opponent old enough to know countermeasures. Same with Namshiel, he was old enough to know countermeasures to the countermeasures and it must have required considerable focus by him and Marcone to avoid it going badly against the Titan.