The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Harry actually should be out of the White Council
Con:
--- Quote from: Griffyn612 on September 21, 2021, 05:30:58 AM ---You have to remember that to the average Joe Wizard, Harry Dresden is a nightmare.
Indisputable Facts
* Harry is the son of an expelled wizard that had a death sentence with the Council and was known to hang out with monsters.
* Harry was adopted by a Warden in good standing with the Council, a war hero no less that helped bring down Kemmler, but Harry killed him with magic in unknown circumstances.
* Harry openly flaunted tradition by practicing openly.
* Harry started a war that could have been avoided, which got a lot of wizards killed.
* Harry committed genocide against a supernatural nation that was actively pursuing peace.
* Harry abandoned his duties after committing genocide, leaving his Council-sworn duty of protecting Chicago to a rogue apprentice wanted for murder.
* Harry became the Winter Knight, the murderous assassin for the evil Sidhe Court.
* Harry is a close associate and suspected lover of White Court royalty.
* Harry performed necromantic magic and was not punished.
* Harry killed with magic and was not punished.
* Harry's apprentice performed mind magic and was not punished.
* Harry worked with Nicodemus Archleon.
* Harry worked with Mab numerous times before becoming her assassin.
* Harry killed a Summer Lady.
* Harry was involved in the deaths of the WinterLady and another Summer Lady.
It's no wonder he lost the popular vote, and you don't even have to bring speculation into it.
--- End quote ---
You should add this post to the "This is why the White Council is afraid of Dresden" Thread
--- Quote from: LostInTime on September 21, 2021, 02:55:03 AM ---Still, under the fourth law, he should have been out. The fourth law of magic forbids the binding of any other being against its will. Harry bound Ethniu. Although, there was no witness, beyond Marcone. Despite the fact that every other magical heavyweight there had already been flattened. Despite the fact that the battle was still in question and all hinged on Ethniu being there to bolster the Fomor offense. By binding Ethniu, Harry should have legitimately been kicked out.
Way back in Storm Front, Harry wouldn’t bind a demon that he had wrested control of away from Victor Sells. Harry didn’t know it, but Morgan was watching and would have killed him had he bound the demon to his will.
--- End quote ---
Fourth Wall breaking in Battle Ground would be the Winter Knight Banner couple of dozen Fae and a couple of hundred Humans under his will.
Just reread Storm Front, and am rereading Fool Moon. Harry is under the impression that summoning Demons is a Seventh Law hasn't learned what the Outer Gates are. When he summons Chauncy he makes a bunch of technical legal lawyery excuses as to how he's not breaking any of the Laws. Chauncy seems certain a Warden would kill him anyway.
forumghost:
--- Quote from: Griffyn612 on September 21, 2021, 05:30:58 AM ---You have to remember that to the average Joe Wizard, Harry Dresden is a nightmare.
Indisputable Facts
* Harry is the son of an expelled wizard that had a death sentence with the Council and was known to hang out with monsters.
* Harry was adopted by a Warden in good standing with the Council, a war hero no less that helped bring down Kemmler, but Harry killed him with magic in unknown circumstances.
* Harry openly flaunted tradition by practicing openly.
* Harry started a war that could have been avoided, which got a lot of wizards killed.
* Harry committed genocide against a supernatural nation that was actively pursuing peace.
* Harry abandoned his duties after committing genocide, leaving his Council-sworn duty of protecting Chicago to a rogue apprentice wanted for murder.
* Harry became the Winter Knight, the murderous assassin for the evil Sidhe Court.
* Harry is a close associate and suspected lover of White Court royalty.
* Harry performed necromantic magic and was not punished.
* Harry killed with magic and was not punished.
* Harry's apprentice performed mind magic and was not punished.
* Harry worked with Nicodemus Archleon.
* Harry worked with Mab numerous times before becoming her assassin.
* Harry killed a Summer Lady.
* Harry was involved in the deaths of the WinterLady and another Summer Lady.
It's no wonder he lost the popular vote, and you don't even have to bring speculation into it.
--- End quote ---
I mean I'd dispute the claim that the Red Court was 'actively pursuing peace' given the fact that they released a bio-weapon attack on the White Council's headquarters less than 24 hours before, but the rest is true.
Griffyn612:
--- Quote from: forumghost on September 21, 2021, 06:35:35 AM ---I mean I'd dispute the claim that the Red Court was 'actively pursuing peace' given the fact that they released a bio-weapon attack on the White Council's headquarters less than 24 hours before, but the rest is true.
--- End quote ---
As far as we know, it was only suspected that they did. Harry was also there at the same time, demanding more bloodshed and threatening violence in the hall, while Arianna was there asking for peace and a path forward.
So in the eyes of his critics and those that fear him, which one dropped a bio-attack that threatened to continue the war?
Mira:
--- Quote --- Harry is the son of an expelled wizard that had a death sentence with the Council and was known to hang out with monsters.
--- End quote ---
Harry didn't ask to be born nor whom to be born to. The generates prejudice against him, but it is no reason to remove him from the Council.
--- Quote ---Harry was adopted by a Warden in good standing with the Council, a war hero no less that helped bring down Kemmler, but Harry killed him with magic in unknown circumstan
--- End quote ---
But the wizard had gone warlock, granted Harry did kill him with magic at sixteen, but at a time when he didn't know there was a White Council or that there were Seven Laws, all he was trying to do was survive... Also if the Council wanted to give him the chop, that was the time.
--- Quote ---Harry openly flaunted tradition by practicing openly.
--- End quote ---
Is it tradition? I mean the original Merlin didn't hide his light under a rock, in fact until modern times wizards, though a bit secretive, did practice openly and held respected places in the social structure of communities. Harry follows that tradition.
--- Quote --- Harry started a war that could have been avoided, which got a lot of wizards killed.
--- End quote ---
He is accused of that, but that wasn't his intention. Could it have been avoided? Or is Harry the mere scapegoat that both sides needed to fight? Also to quote Shiro, respected Holy Knight, paraphrasing, " the White Council is fortunate that the war began when it did, because the Reds didn't quite have their ducks in a row.. Because the Reds were going to attack, make no mistake, it couldn't have been avoided, and a lot more wizards would have died." Also avoiding war at that point in time was above Harry's pay grade, that was for wizard diplomats, the Senior Council, they failed, Harry was merely the goat.
--- Quote ---Harry committed genocide against a supernatural nation that was actively pursuing peace.
--- End quote ---
Were they? Sacrificing a small child to wipe out generations of a wizard's family is hardly an act of a pursing peace. The Council might overlook the demise of Harry and his little girl, but do you think they could over look Eb's assassination? Also as pointed out, releasing a bio-weapon in White Council headquarters isn't an act of peace. Langtree also knew it, that is why he took Harry aside to keep up the fight, in a kind of "Mission Impossible" way...
--- Quote ---Harry abandoned his duties after committing genocide, leaving his Council-sworn duty of protecting Chicago to a rogue apprentice wanted for murder.
--- End quote ---
Harry was mentally disturbed at that point, and cannot be held responsible for what happened. Also would it have happened if he wasn't forced to go to Mab in the first place? The Council refused to help Harry save his child, it was the Red King, not Harry that devised the original spell. Molly was of age when she decided to aid Harry, and she knew perfectly well what she was doing when he was gone.
--- Quote ---Harry became the Winter Knight, the murderous assassin for the evil Sidhe Court.
--- End quote ---
The Winter Court isn't evil, they are the ones protecting the rest of the world from the Outsiders at the Gates and have taken losses in the millions. Also if the Council had supported Harry as they should, they were the first ones he went to with his dilemma, he wouldn't have had to ultimately turn to Mab.
--- Quote ---Harry is a close associate and suspected lover of White Court royalty.
--- End quote ---
Suspect isn't proof, and the White Court as a signer of the Accords is supposed to be an ally not an enemy.
--- Quote ---Harry performed necromantic magic and was not punished.
--- End quote ---
He didn't raise a human from the dead.. Also he did it as a Warden of the White Council, if they didn't like the fact that he had stopped the darkhallow, then at the very least Luccio should have demanded his Warden's cloak back. It was the Council's decision not to punish Harry, he had nothing to do with that decision.
--- Quote ---Harry killed with magic and was not punished.
--- End quote ---
In self defense, often as a Warden, again, if he wasn't punished, who's fault is that? Harry is supposed to punish himself? Or was he merely doing the dirty work that the Council wanted done, had to be done, but were too good in their minds to dirty their hands with the deeds? The Council repeatedly looked the other way, or perhaps muttered a "tut tut..."
--- Quote ---Harry's apprentice performed mind magic and was not punished.
--- End quote ---
It isn't like Harry didn't try to warn her... And YET AGAIN, who's fault is that? Molly was under the Doom, if she broke the rule about mind magic both she and Harry should have gotten the chop. Yet again, the Council looked the other way... Or rather in the middle of a scandal because they were manipulated by Peabody with his ink chose to look the other way... Why? Because without Harry uncovering the fact, they still would be manipulated..
--- Quote ---Harry worked with Nicodemus Archleon.
--- End quote ---
Is there a law against that? Also how many other wizards over the centuries also done the same thing? I doubt that Harry was the first or will he be the last.
--- Quote --- Harry worked with Mab numerous times before becoming her assassin.
--- End quote ---
So has the Council, they need her, they used her lands to move back and forth during the war with the Reds. They are allies.
--- Quote ---Harry killed a Summer Lady.
--- End quote ---
Not directly, Toot and Company did that. Technicality, I know, but had it not been done, things would have been a lot worse, because the balance of power would have collapsed and the defense of the Gates would have collapsed, then what would the Council have done?
--- Quote --- Harry was involved in the deaths of the WinterLady and another Summer Lady.
--- End quote ---
But he didn't do it, and had it not been done and the prison of Demonreach opened and unspeakable monsters would have been loosed on the world.. What then?
--- Quote ---It's no wonder he lost the popular vote, and you don't even have to bring speculation into it.
--- End quote ---
The answers to the charges are also indisputable facts, well if that makes Harry an outlaw, I'm with Michael and his string of oaths that were not printable... :-X
--- Quote ---As far as we know, it was only suspected that they did. Harry was also there at the same time, demanding more bloodshed and threatening violence in the hall, while Arianna was there asking for peace and a path forward.
So in the eyes of his critics and those that fear him, which one dropped a bio-attack that threatened to continue the war?
--- End quote ---
Harry's child was threatened, if he hadn't done, some would question his character for that. Again, he didn't originate the spell that wiped out the Red Court, it was the Red King and it backfired. Also Harry was one distressed wizard, it shouldn't have triggered Arrianna to let loose the bio-weapon, not if she really wanted peace, it merely gave her an excuse. If she really wanted peace, all that was needed was to demand that Harry be shut up and locked up until she finished her negotiations.
But she had her own agenda, and it wasn't peace with the White Council.
vincentric:
What the average White Council wizard knows of Dresden is much, much, much less than we the readers know. We know that Harry was justified in all those things but that is not common knowledge. Only a select few(likely only Rashid, Langtry, Ebeneezer, Listens-to-the-Wind and maybe Luccio) know most of the details of these incidents and they are divided between Harry's allies and antagonists. And since telling Harry's side of the story would reveal too many secrets, both political and world security related, the common wizard is operating off rumors and hearsay and will tend to follow Langtry(who is hostilely disposed to Harry). Holding the expulsion vote while Harry's top Senior Council advocates were hospitalized just sealed the deal.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version