The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers

Outsiders origins

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groinkick:
Alright I have a theory about their origins.  So much of the Dresdenfiles is about the power of Belief, and it manifests into actual Beings.  For example the belief in the season of Winter gives power to the Winter Sidhe.  So just the belief in weather creates a source of power that can be controlled by a Being of some kind.

So here is where I think Outsiders come from.  The fear of the unknown.  I think that the fear of the unknown and everything associated with it is what powers them.  It's why they are so completely alien, and terrifying.  Because they are a pure unknown, malevolent force.  They are all matter of mysterious terror.  I think that just about any mortal Being (and probably many Immortal ones), have a fear of what they cannot know.  TWG locked them out, and I'm thinking it's because TWG doesn't fear the unknown because all is known.  Nobody else has that though.  Everyone besides TWG has some insecurity towards the unknown, it's a primal fear for anything that thinks.  That's a lot of power going somewhere...

Just an idea of mine.  I also think that this unknown terrors could be a clue into Behind, Beside, and Before.  What do you think?

Griffyn612:
I'm not really seeing it. I don't think there's been any mention of the Outsiders growing more powerful due to any human condition, has there? Beside talks about chaos being progress, but it's not like anything was said about them like it was said about the Eye of Balor. That fed off fear in general.

I still lean more towards fear being something Inside can use, but the Outside is beyond such things because they're just Chaos itself.

Like Serack's Theory, I think there was a balance of Order and Chaos in a space, and TWG separated the two, with Order staying inside and Chaos going out. And just like Avatars were made out of Order on the Inside, Avatars were made of out of Chaos on the Outside.

The only connection I see between Outsiders and fear in general is that fear can lead to desperation, which is close enough to chaos to help their agenda.

Do you have any examples of Outsiders and fear of the unknown, or any other fear? I know we're limited in what we've seen of them, but I can't recall much.

Second Aristh:
I would think being created by mortals would make Outsiders technically "insiders" tbh.

groinkick:

--- Quote from: Griffyn612 on August 18, 2021, 04:38:35 AM ---I'm not really seeing it. I don't think there's been any mention of the Outsiders growing more powerful due to any human condition, has there? Beside talks about chaos being progress, but it's not like anything was said about them like it was said about the Eye of Balor. That fed off fear in general.

I still lean more towards fear being something Inside can use, but the Outside is beyond such things because they're just Chaos itself.

Like Serack's Theory, I think there was a balance of Order and Chaos in a space, and TWG separated the two, with Order staying inside and Chaos going out. And just like Avatars were made out of Order on the Inside, Avatars were made of out of Chaos on the Outside.

The only connection I see between Outsiders and fear in general is that fear can lead to desperation, which is close enough to chaos to help their agenda.

Do you have any examples of Outsiders and fear of the unknown, or any other fear? I know we're limited in what we've seen of them, but I can't recall much.

--- End quote ---

Serack's theory sounds like it's pretty solid.  The only problem with it is chaos at least appears to exist in the mortal world.  Maybe not, maybe to those with a birds eye view it's not chaotic but the whole concept of free will would appear to create chaos.

Well I wasn't just speaking about humans, or mortals.  I mean everything besides TWG.  For humans it's probably centered around death (drowning, pain, fire, falling, blinking into nothingness, hell ect).  They fear what it could mean.  For children it's fear of the dark because they can't see what's there.  For Immortals it's the fear of losing that Immortality and what would come after (like mortals).

The Unknown isn't just fear.  It's a lack of control.  I guess you could compare it to chaos.  You have no control over the unknown, and for some (especially Immortals) it may be 10 fold what it is for mortals who have to grow up with unknowns.  So I see the Unknown as a combination of fears, insecurities, chaos, and lack of control.  Mix them all together into a toxic sludge and you have the Outsiders.

The_Sibelis:
Some of that is skewed from my perspective but the overall thesis fits. They might not be these things, but they can use the form to get in. We've seen examples of things taking form gathering energy and essentially becoming that thing in truth, of course. They are the human wondering and fear of the unknown, of beyond reality, things that don't exist, dark shadows of things that do. Some of those things are tethered here because they haven't, or can't be forgotten. That the primary knights on the table are the negatives of humanities most powerful emotions doesn't seem a coincidence. Some things have found a place inside, but those things seem to be as old as time and not willing to work with the status quo. Speaking of, things like the winter court. We know the wall was once assaulted by the Jotun. This is a time and place where such was considered 'beyond' the realm. Now for all intents and purposes it appears Mab lives in their old domain. I'd point out, they currently have generic Lovecraft vibes, which might be the point, in generating the idea Lovecraft gave them a new mirage to work through. I think every cycle those things the outsiders try to use to get in, whatever unbalanced force they find, finds a champion inside who wields it and becomes the avatar, taking up that place in reality from them. Right now they seem to be using magic and apparently subverting things like love, hope and faith itself. Of course, Thomas would be the perfect champion of toxic, broken love..

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