The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Notes on Contagion
Yuillegan:
Maybe not every big bad...but I'd assume a fair amount of them. Particularly the earlier case files.
Also, SA, we have confirmation I believe of Sells and Kravos being infected. I agree they seem odd choices but I suspect the reasons for them won't be revealed until we find out a bit more about Nemesis.
I suspect Ariana but not Ortega. I wouldn't be surprised if Mavra was infected. Nemesis has few limits about what it can affect other than Archangels and it seems to have a set amount of beings it can reside in at any one time. But maybe part of the game is having lots of hosts prepared. So you only have active the maximum amount but if one is found out another host is activated. Which means there are potentially many more possible candidates than actual hosts, but every possible candidate that has been given a contagion vector could well be a host.
Like Vashta Nerada. Not every shadow, but any shadow.
Of all the candidates, I think the Red King is the least likely. He seemed to just be succumbing from the Thirst too much, which apparently does happen to older vamps eventually.
--- Quote from: Griffyn612 on August 04, 2021, 05:05:38 AM ---Theory on Order of Infection
* Young Lord Raith infects himself; becomes anchor for Beside
* Lord Raith infects Kemmler
* Kemmler branch begins and ends
* Lord Raith infects Margaret Lefay
* Margaret Lefay breaks free
* Lord Raith infects Justin DuMorne
* Justin DuMorne infects Elaine Mallory
* Lord Raith infects Cowl
* Cowl infects Peabody
* Cowl infects Victor Sells
* Cowl infects Denton & the Feebs
* Cowl infects Bianca
* Cowl infects Leonid Kravos
* Cowl infects Lea
* Cowl infects Ferrovax
* Elaine infects Aurora
* Lea infects Maeve
* Lord Rath infects Madge
* Maeve infects Scarecrow
* Cowl infects Madrigal Raith
* Cowl infects Vitto Malvora
* Nemesis-controlled Lord Rath infects Justine
* Cowl infects Namshiel's Host
* Cowl infects Madeline Raith
* Cowl infects Arianna Ortega
* Maeve infects Cat Sith
--- End quote ---
I like the list, and the other one about the possible vectors and sources.
Considering Last Call, does there need to be a host anchor? Or could you just operate spread across the many hosts. Reminds me a bit of Agents in the Matrix or something, potentially able to take over any program. It's not every program, but potentially any of them. Obviously the exceptions are those who are awakened like the crew of the Nebuchadnezzar. Maybe star born are a bit like that.
I keep thinking I should write a comparison thread between the Matrix and the Dresden Files. There are certainly some similarities.
morriswalters:
Without a doubt you have Lea, Maeve, Aurora and Justine and Cat Sith. Given that, why use a shotgun to stalk mice. Anybody not a major player can be dealt with using other tools. Peabody's inks or something like them could have been the source for the lower level players who were corrupted. This was Peabody's modus operandi.
If Papa Raith was the first, was he human at that point? Only Humans can summon Outsiders in, unless my lore fails me. But if he is, why isn't Lara infected? Or is she? In which case the Archive is borked.
Lea first uses the Atheme in Grave Peril to open some kind of Portal. But Aurora is over the river and through the woods by Summer Knight, which at least suggests she was infected first or was more susceptible. Which in turn suggests Elaine. Possibly infected by Justin. Elaine could have been the weapon meant to control Harry, the Destroyer. The Outsiders can't control him directly but they could have used their puppet. That would make her a honeypot like Justine. And when that failed they adapted.
Second Aristh:
--- Quote from: Yuillegan on August 04, 2021, 06:40:01 AM ---Maybe not every big bad...but I'd assume a fair amount of them. Particularly the earlier case files.
Also, SA, we have confirmation I believe of Sells and Kravos being infected. I agree they seem odd choices but I suspect the reasons for them won't be revealed until we find out a bit more about Nemesis.
--- End quote ---
I would think most villains were combinations of either BC influence or Nemesis, but they're not the same thing. It's two groups both thinking that they're using the other one for their own gains. Sells/Kravos/Bianca are all the initial pawns set up by the BC, not really Nemesis hosts. Why waste a limited slot on someone like Sells if you're Nemesis when the BC will control him for you?
SA?
--- Quote from: Yuillegan on August 04, 2021, 06:40:01 AM ---I suspect Ariana but not Ortega. I wouldn't be surprised if Mavra was infected. Nemesis has few limits about what it can affect other than Archangels and it seems to have a set amount of beings it can reside in at any one time. But maybe part of the game is having lots of hosts prepared. So you only have active the maximum amount but if one is found out another host is activated. Which means there are potentially many more possible candidates than actual hosts, but every possible candidate that has been given a contagion vector could well be a host.
Like Vashta Nerada. Not every shadow, but any shadow.
Of all the candidates, I think the Red King is the least likely. He seemed to just be succumbing from the Thirst too much, which apparently does happen to older vamps eventually.
I like the list, and the other one about the possible vectors and sources.
--- End quote ---
Ariana doesn't make sense to me. She'd be a nice candidate as far as her placement in the Red Court, but she doesn't undermine anything like normal Nemesis hosts. Her moves in Changes were all pro-Red Court when the goal of the bad guys was to weaken both nations by screwing the one that was currently on top in the war. The Red King and Peabody did that for them.
The best connection with Ariana and the BC would be the heart curse that Sells was studying for them. Possibly the BC/Nemesis could have thought that killing starborn Harry and Eb was worth ending their war early.
--- Quote from: Yuillegan on August 04, 2021, 06:40:01 AM ---Considering Last Call, does there need to be a host anchor? Or could you just operate spread across the many hosts. Reminds me a bit of Agents in the Matrix or something, potentially able to take over any program. It's not every program, but potentially any of them. Obviously the exceptions are those who are awakened like the crew of the Nebuchadnezzar. Maybe star born are a bit like that.
I keep thinking I should write a comparison thread between the Matrix and the Dresden Files. There are certainly some similarities.
--- End quote ---
Yeah, I'm getting the Agent Smith vibe from Nemesis too. My current framework is that Nemesis has a limited list of candidates to jump into and partially to fully control, but it can only do that to a smaller number of beings at once, say 13ish since that number is cropping up a lot more lately.
Griffyn612:
I'm trying to figure out in my head using book evidence if the contagion *has* to be Beside. I'd prefer if it didn't.
I'd prefer if the contagion is a conduit that corrupts those it touches, changing them, but it doesn't have anything to do with Beside.
The question is, if the contagion in last call tied the beer drinkers to the essence of Dionysus, then could the nemesis contagion tie to the Lord of Slowest Terror, master of the Walkers?
It could be that the contagion is a psychic link, and the link causes behavior corruption without Beside being involved.
Beside could just be using the link to spy on some, and possess a select few that meet additional criteria.
Griffyn612:
Theoretical breakdown between those corrupted by the outsider contagion spell versus those possessed by Beside.
(Incomplete at this time)
* Corruption does not require Beside involved, and simply occurs by interacting with power tainted with the Outsider contagion spell, which corrupts the individual by linking them to Outside/Lord of Slowest Terror.
* Corruption is unlimited.
* Possession requires willing consent, or no consent for those lacking free will and subordinate to another possessed individual.
* Possession has an upper limit.
Corrupted (as specified in CD)
* Victor Sells : Scorpion totem : Cowl
* Philip Denton : Wolf Belts : Cowl
* Leonid Kravos : Big Leather Book : Cowl
* Aurora : ??? : Elaine?
Seemingly corrupted based on behavior
* Madrigal Raith (feeding habits)
* Vitto Malvora (aggression, outsider possession)
* Madge Shelly (aggression, loss of morals)
* Cowl (lack of empathy, use of outsiders)
*
*
Possessed by Beside
* Lord Raith : ancient times : Ruby earring from someone/some spell
* Lea : GP/DB : Athame from Cowl
* Maeve : SK/PG : Willing deal with Lea
* Scarecrow : ??? : Commanded by Winter Lady
* Namshiel's Host : ??? : Deal for control?
* Cat Sith : CD : Commanded by Winter Lady
* Justine : BR/TC : ? Maybe Lord Rath on Beside-pilot?
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