The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Resolving the Drakul/Dracula conflicting information
Avernite:
Vlad II Drakul is also a bad fit for the previous starborn cycle, which has to have been in the early 1300's where Vlad II was a boy in 1395 (counting 1970-666 gives 1304; not sure I remember Harry's birth year, but definitely not right for a boy of 1395).
groinkick:
My opinion is Drakul is the son of Loki, Fenrir. The hint to me was when he said "I like this much better" and transformed into a wolf that was taller than Dresden at the shoulders.
Also reading more about him, Fenrir was bound by the other gods (because he was growing too powerful, and it was predicted he'd kill Odin). Drakul is "something else" trapped in mortal form. There is a chance that the only way to actually bind his power was to trap him in a mortal form. Fenrir is also supposed to kill Odin, so it would make sense for him to be in the books.
There is another child of Loki who is The World Snake. I think it would be cool if The World Snake and Fenrir were one in the same, but don't know if that's the case. Drakul could be The World Snake as well.
Loki has three children. Fenrir, Hel, and Jörmungandr (the world snake). I'm hoping all three make an appearance but believe Drakul is either Fenrir or Jörmungandr.
I will add that because Fenrir was born, he in theory could also be a Starborn.
Dracula (son of Drakul) was also known to change into a wolf. The son of Fenrir would probably take a similar form as his father.
My belief is that Drakul's goal is to release his father, and brother, and conquer reality.
Griffyn612:
--- Quote from: Avernite on July 31, 2021, 09:11:58 PM ---Vlad II Drakul is also a bad fit for the previous starborn cycle, which has to have been in the early 1300's where Vlad II was a boy in 1395 (counting 1970-666 gives 1304; not sure I remember Harry's birth year, but definitely not right for a boy of 1395).
--- End quote ---
Yeah, none of the three Vlads fit the cycle, so something else had to be going on. Based on the Butcher comment in the podcast, it seems likely that Drakul isn't from the last cycle, but instead a previous one.
--- Quote from: groinkick on July 31, 2021, 09:23:22 PM ---My opinion is Drakul is the son of Loki, Fenrir. The hint to me was when he said "I like this much better" and transformed into a wolf that was taller than Dresden at the shoulders.
Also reading more about him, Fenrir was bound by the other gods (because he was growing too powerful, and it was predicted he'd kill Odin). Drakul is "something else" trapped in mortal form. There is a chance that the only way to actually bind his power was to trap him in a mortal form. Fenrir is also supposed to kill Odin, so it would make sense for him to be in the books.
There is another child of Loki who is The World Snake. I think it would be cool if The World Snake and Fenrir were one in the same, but don't know if that's the case. Drakul could be The World Snake as well.
Loki has three children. Fenrir, Hel, and Jörmungandr (the world snake). I'm hoping all three make an appearance but believe Drakul is either Fenrir or Jörmungandr.
I will add that because Fenrir was born, he in theory could also be a Starborn.
Dracula (son of Drakul) was also known to change into a wolf. The son of Fenrir would probably take a similar form as his father.
My belief is that Drakul's goal is to release his father, and brother, and conquer reality.
--- End quote ---
Turning into a wolf seemed more like typical vampire magic from Stoker, but I suppose it could be a clue. There's just little else to connect the two.
Jormungandr at least has a connection with the dragon/Drakul name, even though that's based on a real world organization. But even then, I'm not sure what other ties there are between Drakul and Jormungandr.
Yuillegan:
--- Quote from: Conspiracy Theorist on July 31, 2021, 02:18:05 PM ---What is the benefit of a human body?
For a creature purely of the Never Never it is having a body you dob’t have to conjure from ectoplasm only to have it ripped away each dawn. I wonder if Odin has the same deal, he is now mortal flesh relying upon the immortality of the Kringle Mantle, but he may have done this the slow way, replacing his godly flesh with mortal flesh through mortal sustenance. Harry has been warned of the opposite. We have seen the recruited Winter Fae born, raised and living in the mortal world, their flesh isn’t ectoplasm so presumably they have a lot less to worry about with dawn.
We can therefore posit that Drakul is a being from the Never Never who needed a quick fix, to stay relatively unencumbered in the mortal world and possession was the way forward, and if so why not have the advantages of a Starborn, such as immunity to the influence of Outsiders.
If possession is a quick fix, what necessitated this hasty (from the point of view of immortals) action? Clearly something big enough to worry Drakul, which would be gods, Titans, Dragons, angels, archangels and the White God themself. The White God and his servants try to save the human hosts of denarians, so this additional protection may have been a consideration. There is also a power level consideration - the Queens are about as powerful a being can be in the mortal world without breaking it (and presumably get the negative attention of the White God), entities at higher power levesl like the Mothers, Hades etc stay out of the mortal world, or dip in under restrictions like Ferrovax. The last Titan hid, and when she popped up was laid low by the Knights and a wizard armed and empowered by the White God.
The likelihood I think is that Drakul has been the source of many ‘outcast’ myths and legends, and whilst I doubt that he is Lucifer, he may be an outcast god or several gods such as Mars, Ares, Loki etc, as well as a host of other monsters shunned by mortal man.
--- End quote ---
It all depends on how it was done, I think.
Jim said that when Athena popped out of Zeus' head, he created a body for her to be in. Harry couldn't do that for Bonnea in the same way so they had to use Bob's back-up skull.
So did Drakul create a body, or possess one, or is it the combination of a starborn ascending and that being taking shape? The answer is very important I think.
You're onto something with the ectoplasm versus real body. I believe that's part of how beings like Vadderung and Drakul can affect the universe in a big way, that non-mortals can't. I don't know if they get free will when going mortal...but I wouldn't be surprised if their will becomes "freer". I also suspect it require less energy from them to maintain a mortal body than an ectoplasm one and it can't be cut-off or banished as easily as an ectoplasm body. Uriel, Ethniu and others don't use ectoplasm bodies though, so it does make you wonder if their bodies are those spirit+flesh bodies mentioned and never talked about again in Fool Moon. If so, why doesn't Drakul do that?
Seem it could be he was looking for protection from the other powers by hiding in a mortal body. But I think it's more likely it offers an advantage that an immortal body doesn't. Mab hinted this when she told Dresden immortality is no substitute for intelligence. Ethniu hints at this when she muses why Vadderung is so mortal now...and suggests it's because he thinks he is deep in the "game".
--- Quote from: Griffyn612 on July 31, 2021, 03:39:38 PM ---I hadn't read that yet, so thanks for that. It helps.
I still think the above fits to a degree. Drakul made Blamps/strigoi, and a short time later Dracula became one and went hog wild.
The question is, did Drakul body-hop and eventually get stuck, or did he just possess and get stuck in a starborn in ancient time and he just changed identity for millennia?
Yeah, my guess is that in the Dresdenverse, Drakul toyed around with making Blamps, either from a proto-strigoi creature or a strix.
I agree that him being Luci is unlikely, as that would make the power use in Small Favor difficult. Hard to believe he'd help the denarians with that but not associate with them otherwise.
Now I'm going to have to go down the rabbit hole of "who has Drakul been?"
I'm currently getting a Mister Sinister vibe from him. Engineering Blamps, targeting those with powers to enhance them and turn them, obsessed with a particular blood line/type, working secretly from the shadows, hiding his identity. I'd say he's also like Apocalypse, in the raw power way, but not the personality way.
--- End quote ---
All good, it was fairly recent information.
Yes, I think that's the salient point. Has Drakul been body-hopping or did he get stuck early on in human history, maybe in his first body, and holding various personas over time in the one body? I think there isn't enough information as yet to make a clear decision. There is merit in both ideas. My gut feeling is that he got trapped in his original starborn body back in the day - somehow that just feels right. Which makes it all the more impressive he is still running around.
Black Court simply struck me as the original condition and other vampires were simply other variants. But I am less leaning to Drakul being the sole creator of all the vampires and rather just the father of the Black Court. While there are connections, he doesn't display obvious Red Court and White Court tendencies or characteristics (excluding the Willpower attack - but I think that's another thing...). I do think though that he offered a worthy opponent a long time ago what Drakul described as "the dark gift of immortality" in exchange for servitude. That's how he started the Black Court, I think.
Yeah, I don't think he's Luci. It would both be too obvious and not make sense for all the reasons you stated and more. The Demon Lord theory now seems the most likely.
The Apocalypse reference is a good one. It makes a fair bit of sense. I can see Vadderung as a Prof X type and perhaps Nicodemus or Marcone as a Magneto type, working together to defeat him. Certainly a vibe.
It would be good to try and make a list of candidates for possible personas that Drakul has held. I will think on it.
Griffyn612:
--- Quote from: Yuillegan on August 01, 2021, 02:03:31 AM ---It all depends on how it was done, I think.
Jim said that when Athena popped out of Zeus' head, he created a body for her to be in. Harry couldn't do that for Bonnea in the same way so they had to use Bob's back-up skull.
So did Drakul create a body, or possess one, or is it the combination of a starborn ascending and that being taking shape? The answer is very important I think.
You're onto something with the ectoplasm versus real body. I believe that's part of how beings like Vadderung and Drakul can affect the universe in a big way, that non-mortals can't. I don't know if they get free will when going mortal...but I wouldn't be surprised if their will becomes "freer". I also suspect it require less energy from them to maintain a mortal body than an ectoplasm one and it can't be cut-off or banished as easily as an ectoplasm body. Uriel, Ethniu and others don't use ectoplasm bodies though, so it does make you wonder if their bodies are those spirit+flesh bodies mentioned and never talked about again in Fool Moon. If so, why doesn't Drakul do that?
Seem it could be he was looking for protection from the other powers by hiding in a mortal body. But I think it's more likely it offers an advantage that an immortal body doesn't. Mab hinted this when she told Dresden immortality is no substitute for intelligence. Ethniu hints at this when she muses why Vadderung is so mortal now...and suggests it's because he thinks he is deep in the "game".
All good, it was fairly recent information.
Yes, I think that's the salient point. Has Drakul been body-hopping or did he get stuck early on in human history, maybe in his first body, and holding various personas over time in the one body? I think there isn't enough information as yet to make a clear decision. There is merit in both ideas. My gut feeling is that he got trapped in his original starborn body back in the day - somehow that just feels right. Which makes it all the more impressive he is still running around.
Black Court simply struck me as the original condition and other vampires were simply other variants. But I am less leaning to Drakul being the sole creator of all the vampires and rather just the father of the Black Court. While there are connections, he doesn't display obvious Red Court and White Court tendencies or characteristics (excluding the Willpower attack - but I think that's another thing...). I do think though that he offered a worthy opponent a long time ago what Drakul described as "the dark gift of immortality" in exchange for servitude. That's how he started the Black Court, I think.
Yeah, I don't think he's Luci. It would both be too obvious and not make sense for all the reasons you stated and more. The Demon Lord theory now seems the most likely.
The Apocalypse reference is a good one. It makes a fair bit of sense. I can see Vadderung as a Prof X type and perhaps Nicodemus or Marcone as a Magneto type, working together to defeat him. Certainly a vibe.
It would be good to try and make a list of candidates for possible personas that Drakul has held. I will think on it.
--- End quote ---
Now that his age is indefinite, it's all but impossible to pin down any facts.
I like the idea of the strix being a Greek-gods cursed human family that resulted in blood-drinking bird creatures, and for some reason a branch helped found the strigoi, like the magical equivalent of evolution. Then later, Drakul experimented to make a new breed that is the Blamp.
I think that would allow for different courts to evolve from their own regions and origins around the globe. Since blood drinking was fairly common back in the day, I could easily see each having a similar but different path.
Blood sacrifice to gods could have started it all over the place, or familial curses, or demonic possession... So many options, so little guidance.
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