A new threat to Dresden (later) WAG

[groinkick]

I think that if Eb dies, the Blackstaff will either go to Dresden (making this topic moot) or someone else on the Council who will be another threat to Harry.  The Blackstaff can break all the laws of magic to target an enemy of the White Council.  Harry has been kicked out.  So if this person decides that Dresden is a problem (or more likely this person is actually Black Council), they will be able to break all the laws of magic with no consequences to go after Harry.  If this scenario happens, who do you think the person would be to target Harry?

[Mira]

I think that if Eb dies, the Blackstaff will either go to Dresden (making this topic moot) or someone else on the Council who will be another threat to Harry.  The Blackstaff can break all the laws of magic to target an enemy of the White Council.  Harry has been kicked out.  So if this person decides that Dresden is a problem (or more likely this person is actually Black Council), they will be able to break all the laws of magic with no consequences to go after Harry.  If this scenario happens, who do you think the person would be to target Harry?

From the amount of kool aid he has drunk, I'd say the obvious candidate is Carlos.

[groinkick]

From the amount of kool aid he has drunk, I'd say the obvious candidate is Carlos.

I thought so too, but he's so young for a wizard...  I'm just skeptical that someone his age would be accepted by the Council.  I don't think Eb would choose him as a successor either. 

Also I don't see him as a worthy adversary for Dresden.  Harry is facing gods at this point.  Carlos is a kid by comparison to Harry.  It wouldn't feel right.  It needs to be someone who not only is able to break the laws of magic, but is actually really good at it.

[Mira]

I thought so too, but he's so young for a wizard...  I'm just skeptical that someone his age would be accepted by the Council.  I don't think Eb would choose him as a successor either. 

Also I don't see him as a worthy adversary for Dresden.  Harry is facing gods at this point.  Carlos is a kid by comparison to Harry.  It wouldn't feel right.  It needs to be someone who not only is able to break the laws of magic, but is actually really good at it.

True, but the Council itself seems a bit corrupt these days and desperate.  Carlos is still a Warden, it would be a mistake to underestimate him.

[groinkick]

True, but the Council itself seems a bit corrupt these days and desperate.  Carlos is still a Warden, it would be a mistake to underestimate him.

I'm just speaking from a writer/reader standpoint.  Carlos doesn't seem like a worthy candidate.  Unless it's supposed to be a tragic scenario where he thinks that Harry went bad, and it results in Carlos actually being the bad one using all kinds of dark magic (although not corrupted by it), forcing Harry to kill his one time friend.

[Mira]

I'm just speaking from a writer/reader standpoint.  Carlos doesn't seem like a worthy candidate.  Unless it's supposed to be a tragic scenario where he thinks that Harry went bad, and it results in Carlos actually being the bad one using all kinds of dark magic (although not corrupted by it), forcing Harry to kill his one time friend.

Carlos is worthy from the stand point that he could be seen as the new Morgan.  He is a good guy, powerful enough wizard to be made a Warden, but susceptible, because he doesn't think too deeply about anything.  Like Morgan he believes in the system, during the Battle for Chicago he was in way over his head, yet he saw Harry succeed.. He doesn't understand how, so it's got to be dark magic.  He loses all his friends, powerful wizards all, yet Harry survives, it has got to be dark magic.. Fed that line long enough and hard enough by the right Senior Council member, say Christos or even the Merlin himself, Carlos, like Morgan becomes a fanatical believer.. And yes, Harry may be forced tragically to kill him someday to survive.. Or like Morgan he will realize hopefully before he dies that he was wrong. 

[TheCuriousFan]

I thought so too, but he's so young for a wizard...  I'm just skeptical that someone his age would be accepted by the Council.  I don't think Eb would choose him as a successor either. 

Also I don't see him as a worthy adversary for Dresden.  Harry is facing gods at this point.  Carlos is a kid by comparison to Harry.  It wouldn't feel right.  It needs to be someone who not only is able to break the laws of magic, but is actually really good at it.

But he's a ridiculously good matchup to Harry thanks to disintegration costing basically nothing and being really good at the catch and return trick.

Carlos is worthy from the stand point that he could be seen as the new Morgan.  He is a good guy, powerful enough wizard to be made a Warden, but susceptible, because he doesn't think too deeply about anything.  Like Morgan he believes in the system, during the Battle for Chicago he was in way over his head, yet he saw Harry succeed.. He doesn't understand how, so it's got to be dark magic.  He loses all his friends, powerful wizards all, yet Harry survives, it has got to be dark magic.. Fed that line long enough and hard enough by the right Senior Council member, say Christos or even the Merlin himself, Carlos, like Morgan becomes a fanatical believer.. And yes, Harry may be forced tragically to kill him someday to survive.. Or like Morgan he will realize hopefully before he dies that he was wrong. 

Or maybe, just maybe, his distrust is based on Harry being objectively suspicious as fuck during the peace talks.

[groinkick]

Carlos is worthy from the stand point that he could be seen as the new Morgan.  He is a good guy, powerful enough wizard to be made a Warden, but susceptible, because he doesn't think too deeply about anything.  Like Morgan he believes in the system, during the Battle for Chicago he was in way over his head, yet he saw Harry succeed.. He doesn't understand how, so it's got to be dark magic.  He loses all his friends, powerful wizards all, yet Harry survives, it has got to be dark magic.. Fed that line long enough and hard enough by the right Senior Council member, say Christos or even the Merlin himself, Carlos, like Morgan becomes a fanatical believer.. And yes, Harry may be forced tragically to kill him someday to survive.. Or like Morgan he will realize hopefully before he dies that he was wrong.

But he's not the new Morgan. 

Jim:

"Yeah, Morgan was not about to win any popularity contests, inside the Council or out of it–but *everyone* knew that he was bad news.  He wasn’t *liked* by hardly anyone, but he was *respected* by most of the Council and their allies, and *feared* by most of their enemies.
Harry just happened to be in that latter category for the longest time, as far as Morgan was concerned.  Morgan scared the bejeezus out of Harry, on several levels.  Which was why Harry’s POV toward Morgan was so freaking skewed.  Harry /always/ saw him as the Javertesque-persecutor of warlocks and wayward wizards.  For everyone else, that was only a part of Morgan’s identity.  Mainly, to them, he was the guy from the White Council who was most likely to kick down your door, burn your wicked minions to ash in fire and brimstone, and then divide you into several distinct nonentities with his sword.   The killing-baby-warlocks thing was just his sideline.

Harry does not have Morgan’s experience or expertise in a fight.  It doesn’t mean that Harry isn’t also an effective and dangerous opponent, but he has a completely different approach–and he generally has a lot more to learn, still, before he is as formidable as someone like Morgan.

Granted, Ebenezar makes /Morgan/ look like Harry.  But hey.   There’s always someone bigger or better than you, right?"


Carlos doesn't even come close to this. 

[TheCuriousFan]

But he's not the new Morgan. 

Jim:

"Yeah, Morgan was not about to win any popularity contests, inside the Council or out of it–but *everyone* knew that he was bad news.  He wasn’t *liked* by hardly anyone, but he was *respected* by most of the Council and their allies, and *feared* by most of their enemies.
Harry just happened to be in that latter category for the longest time, as far as Morgan was concerned.  Morgan scared the bejeezus out of Harry, on several levels.  Which was why Harry’s POV toward Morgan was so freaking skewed.  Harry /always/ saw him as the Javertesque-persecutor of warlocks and wayward wizards.  For everyone else, that was only a part of Morgan’s identity.  Mainly, to them, he was the guy from the White Council who was most likely to kick down your door, burn your wicked minions to ash in fire and brimstone, and then divide you into several distinct nonentities with his sword.   The killing-baby-warlocks thing was just his sideline.

Harry does not have Morgan’s experience or expertise in a fight.  It doesn’t mean that Harry isn’t also an effective and dangerous opponent, but he has a completely different approach–and he generally has a lot more to learn, still, before he is as formidable as someone like Morgan.

Granted, Ebenezar makes /Morgan/ look like Harry.  But hey.   There’s always someone bigger or better than you, right?"


Carlos doesn't even come close to this.

Yeah he's no Morgan in terms of ability even if he is leveling up an absolute ton offscreen.

[Mira]

Yeah he's no Morgan in terms of ability even if he is leveling up an absolute ton offscreen.

But of the younger wizards we know of, who has that ability?  Answer is zip!  They are either dead or in the case of Harry and Molly kicked out.

[Snark Knight]

Also I don't see him as a worthy adversary for Dresden.  Harry is facing gods at this point.  Carlos is a kid by comparison to Harry.  It wouldn't feel right.  It needs to be someone who not only is able to break the laws of magic, but is actually really good at it.

I don't think it was an accident narrating in BG that Carlos' technique is better than Harry's in some significant ways. Jim is setting this up as a rivalry to be concerned about, even if it doesn't play out all the way to a life-and-death confrontation.

Harry wasn't so much facing gods as being bailed out of a fight he would have lost by Namshiel for his own reasons. Carlos is still very much someone he should be worried about on a normal day. He wouldn't even need the blackstaff if he decided Harry had to go ... unless Harry has the Guard on 24/7 veiled assassin patrol, he's plenty vulnerable to invisible guys with a simple gun.

[Mira]

I don't think it was an accident narrating in BG that Carlos' technique is better than Harry's in some significant ways. Jim is setting this up as a rivalry to be concerned about, even if it doesn't play out all the way to a life-and-death confrontation.

Harry wasn't so much facing gods as being bailed out of a fight he would have lost by Namshiel for his own reasons. Carlos is still very much someone he should be worried about on a normal day. He wouldn't even need the blackstaff if he decided Harry had to go ... unless Harry has the Guard on 24/7 veiled assassin patrol, he's plenty vulnerable to invisible guys with a simple gun.

Indeed, as we saw in I believe it was The Warrior, he was very lucky that time.

[Snark Knight]

Carlos is worthy from the stand point that he could be seen as the new Morgan.  He is a good guy, powerful enough wizard to be made a Warden, but susceptible, because he doesn't think too deeply about anything.

I'm not sure I'd agree Carlos doesn't think too deeply. He deduced the existence of the 'black hats' independently as of White Night. And he thought on his feet to give Molly the credit for bargaining with him on the Miksume's behalf in Cold Case.

His current harsh assessment of Harry is as much Harry's fault for being reflexively secretive with a supposed friend as it is Carlos' for being dumb.

[groinkick]

I don't think it was an accident narrating in BG that Carlos' technique is better than Harry's in some significant ways. Jim is setting this up as a rivalry to be concerned about, even if it doesn't play out all the way to a life-and-death confrontation.

Harry wasn't so much facing gods as being bailed out of a fight he would have lost by Namshiel for his own reasons. Carlos is still very much someone he should be worried about on a normal day. He wouldn't even need the blackstaff if he decided Harry had to go ... unless Harry has the Guard on 24/7 veiled assassin patrol, he's plenty vulnerable to invisible guys with a simple gun.

Carlos is gifted, but I just don't think he can hang with Harry.  Remember that we always see things from Harry's perspective, but not from others.  As Jim describes is (if memory serves) Harry is pretty frightening to those who've seen him in action.  Harry respects what Carlos can do, but I suspect Carlos is terrified of what he's seen Harry do.  I doubt he'd be confident going into a fight with Harry, especially if he ever seen him throw around a soulfire spell.  Skill is great but sometimes overwhelming force is just better.

[Just Al]

I think Anastacia Luccio would be the logical candidate. When she was in Tombstone, she mentioned that Eb was head of the wardens at that time. She has the experience, even if her new body isn't ideal for magiking.