The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
The Red Court vs. The Fomor
vincentric:
The Formor were always going to be a more limited threat because they are limited to areas with large bodies of water. If the series were set in Hawaii or Japan or even Great Britain, I'd expect them to be major players because their limitations would be less in play.
They will always be somewhat of a threat because they have the best defensive home advantage of all the powers in the mortal world. But they will always be limited by needing servants to do anything except acts of violence. Their appearance just won't allow them to infiltrate the way the Reds, Whites, and even the Sidhe can.
Plus the overarching adversaries of the series are the Outsiders. They are using all the powers of the world to reach their goals but they work their biggest plots through trickery, bribery and subversion. I think the rest of the series before the BAT will be focused on the plots the Outsiders throw at the world in these ways and Harry's challenge will be thwarting the dupes and allies they are using.
KurtinStGeorge:
--- Quote from: TheCuriousFan on January 09, 2021, 03:14:52 AM ---There's also the whole thing where they're pretty much off-screen until BG comes along (and promptly breaks things by revealing they had a god in their back pocket, why even sign the accords with that kind of power?) and even then don't live up to the description that Lea gave in GS.
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Lea's description of the Fomor in Ghost Story:
“Once, they were the enemies of my people, Winter and Summer alike,” she said, lifting her chin as her emerald eyes grew distant. “We banished them to the sea. Now they are the exiles of myth and legend, the outcasts of the gods and demons of every land bordering the sea. Defeated giants, fallen gods, dark reflections of beings of light. They are many races and none, joined together beneath the banner of the Fomor in a common cause.”
Yes, from this statement it sounds like the Fomor should have had more than one old god (Ethniu) and a number of clearly identifiable demons on their side. I understand it would be difficult for any writer to fashion an army with specific characteristics from such a vague description as "the exiles of myths and legend," but then the problem is with the original description.
--- Quote from: The_Sibelis on January 09, 2021, 11:49:54 AM ---Idk, king corb might have his day.. especially when you consider the prophecy of what will happen before he dies...
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I'm not looking at the prophecy as I write this, but as I remember it King Korb living until the sun burns out could easily be fulfilled by having him locked up under Demonreach until the end of time.
--- Quote from: The_Sibelis on January 09, 2021, 11:49:54 AM ---The real threat from them is what they represent. Natural entropy. Besides the discourse on water magic and what not in the books. Norse mythology. Fire and ice are the two competing forces of reality and when the immovable object hits the unstoppable force the third power that wins out is water. Fire... Ice.. water.. see the themes here? I think they'll be part of the fall of the courts themselves. Especially when you consider how weak the fae look from taking them on. Without Mab and Harry the day was already lost. They even needed plain mortals to help, needed it.
Think it came up on FB not here iirc, but BG made the supernatural world look a lot smaller, and not just because of the few representatives who showed up, but by how little muscle they had to flex.
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That is an interesting take on the Fomor and you may be on to something. On the other hand, the Fomor were held in check by ordinary mortals with shotguns, and their champion; the last Titan, was defeated by the first vanilla mortal free holding Lord of the supernatural world, with the help of one mortal wizard. The Battle of Chicago didn't do the Fomor's reputation much good either.
More important from a reading perspective, your perception that the Fomor represent natural entropy of the supernatural world; or at least the fae's place in the supernatural world, doesn't make the Fomor more viscerally entertaining as bad guys.
--- Quote from: Avernite on January 09, 2021, 10:56:42 AM ---I agree; the Fomor are the chump villains.
There's a REASON they only became relevant when Harry wiped the Reds, and Harry's probably ended them by imprisoning Ethniu (along with the losses in Chicago). There will be more henchmen of the Fomor kind, same as Ghouls keep occuring, but they're done and dusted. The chump villain to replace the big ones, who fall quickly as we move on into the final stretch where Harry faces off with the REAL nasty powers of the world (who previously manipulated him) - Hell/Marcone, Dragons, White Council, Odin and Winter.
edit to add: we see this especially in Skin Game. The villain of the story is Nicodemus but the Fomor manage to be the warm-up enemy, and they are a threat according to that level. Or Ghost Story, where Leah abuses some Fomor goons to teach Molly/Harry, who are way beyond being actually threatened by them on a normal day, while Corpsetaker is the real menace.
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You're not wrong; in fact, IMO you've pretty much nailed it. However from my perspective, even the ghouls have been more entertaining, and that's really what I'm getting at. in this discussion, I'm not greatly interested in where the Fomor fit in, in the greater scheme of things. I am concerned with how they (How can I put this? I got it), how they play their role within the overall story. The Red Court turned out to be the warm up act within the larger arc of the story, but they never came off that way on the written page. They were always dangerous, scary and it was just plain fun to read Harry's battles with them, both big and small. Even Morgan's description of the Red Court in a battle that Harry wasn't at, was entertaining.
--- Quote from: Mira on January 09, 2021, 05:37:31 AM ---
I think the nasties that Harry really has to worry about is the Black Court. So far against them, Harry has come out on the short end of the stick, more or less. As LTW said, fighting them and Drakul and surviving is considered a win.. So stay tuned.
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Maybe, but mostly Mavra has been an impressive and challenging villain for Harry to fight, negotiate or just banter with. The other Elders in BG didn't come across any stronger than Mavra's flunkies in BR. They were something of a letdown. You are right about Drakul. We will have to wait and see what his role is and how well the character fulfills it.
Con:
Red Court had territory from Nevada down to the entire Central and Southern America.
Arguably the Oceans are bigger but less population, still waiting for an Atlantis reference on that front.
There's also the fact The Fomor pissed off the entire Unseelie Accords for there major assault. Red Court more or less picked there battles except when it came to the Fae Courts.
Having said that the empirical evidence is that Harry took on the Red Court in the heart of there Empire and Power with a strike team and annihilated all of them.
The Fomor launched an attack on Harry's, Marcone and the White Court centre of power not to mention vadderung, Erlking 4 Faerie Queens and there forces. Fomor survived the attack but did major damage to Chicago heartland.
forumghost:
--- Quote from: Mira on January 09, 2021, 05:37:31 AM ---
I think the nasties that Harry really has to worry about is the Black Court. So far against them, Harry has come out on the short end of the stick, more or less. As LTW said, fighting them and Drakul and surviving is considered a win.. So stay tuned.
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Yep I can't wait to find out that Drakul was able to use the Knowledge in the Word of Kemmler to revive the Black Court Elders and restore them to the height of their powers, all because Harry likes to think with his Dick.
Murphy may break the limitation on her own resurrection out of pure, unbridled fury when she finds out.
morriswalters:
Jim used 12 books to set up the Reds. And he built them up so they had menace. For instance the attack on Archangel, you only see it in the reflection of it's results and it's scary. One of his better pieces of storytelling.
On the other hand here come the Fomor kill all the humans and then talk trash. Then declare war. I can imagine every reader thinking, WTF? What was the Titan thinking? Tell the enemy that you're coming and give them time to get set? This is like the allies telling Hitler that they were hitting the beach at Normandy on D day at first light and inviting him to concentrate his forces there. How dumb is that?
I'm gonna be uncharitable and suggest that this is the result of the book being split. He needed a break for a boating trip to Demonreach. It makes the Formor look silly without intending to be.
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