The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
"Talk To Me..." Had Carlos Already Drank the Kool-Aid?
Mira:
The point is, I think is was Carlos a willing stooge for the Senior Council from the beginning. On the reread, the beach scene reads precisely like that, except for the odd questioning look Harry saw in his face when he asked how much the vest weighed, Carlos acted like Carlos. One of Harry's best buds among the Wardens, in the middle of the sweetness and light he plants a tracker dot on him.
In fairness to Carlos I think he recent experience with the Winter Lady did damage him more than physically. You cannot blame him if he thinks Molly is a monster now, and by extension, Harry. How much does Luccio and the Senior Council know about how Carlos was injured? Knowing it was just the excuse they needed to get rid of Harry.
What I find is interesting is the one Warden who thinks it all stinks is Chandler. He is the one who really conveys the message for Harry to be on his guard with the Wardens. Also interesting, in the fight with Drakul and the Black Court, while Wild Bill and Yoshimo are killed, their bodies sent off for conversion to wizard vamps, Chandler is sent off into another dimension.. You know he is going to return. Is Harry in Mirror Mirror going to run across him and rescue him? If he does, who's side will Chandler really be on?
Mira:
--- Quote ---When has Carlos exercised the kind of trust he has asked of Harry? They've had each other's backs in fights. Carlos has pointed out he knew something fishy was going on with both the Council and Harry in WN. That was the closest. He exposed himself to danger. If Harry was part of the Black Hats, then Carlos would have been in danger. If Carlos was in the Black Hats, he was risking exposing himself. That was Harry's opportunity talk to Carlos. Carlos might not have been trustworthy, but that was the time. PT was too late. As Mira points out, Carlos was already pretty suspicious of Harry at that point.
--- End quote ---
But as of White Night, Carlos didn't ask any questions.
--- Quote ---We're all assuming Carlos is a good guy because he comes off that way. I think he was well liked by most of us. Most of us understand why he's so suspicious of Harry. He's got plenty of reason to be. He seems like he's actually mad at Harry and thinks Harry's in the wrong. A member of the Black Council probably wouldn't. He might be able to fake it. My point is, while I don't think so, Carlos might be Black Council. A lot of his actions could be explained through that lens, but some others don't make much sense unless we're looking at a left hand doesn't know what the right is doing kind of situation.
--- End quote ---
That is why I am wondering if someone on the Black Council is taking advantage of Carlos's recent trauma at the hands of Molly, the Winter Lady. I doubt that anyone has explained or perhaps even knew that that would happen if a mortal tried to have sex with the virgin fae queen. Weakened physically and emotionally, it wouldn't be hard for an experienced older wizard, even Luccio, to twist his views so Carlos would think it possible that Harry was a monster. No need to break any of the Laws about going into the mind, a silver tongue is all that is needed.
--- Quote ---On that note, Chandler's warning to Harry, escape from detention in Changes, and maybe not dying in the fight with Drakul could also be taken as hints he's not on the up and up. His warning to Harry could have been meant to push Harry into being defensive.
--- End quote ---
Possible, I will eat all the books in the series if Chandler doesn't pop up again, but as a double agent? Friend? Foe? Will Carlos become the black hat and Chandler the guy who always did have Harry's back?
The_Sibelis:
Crazy theory time. Chandler was taken to the blackness of nothing.. he found his way back, but ended up in the MM timeline,
Conspiracy Theorist:
Unless Chandler was sent back in time and is getting back via stasis in Demonreach, this may be why Jim is coy about the previous Wardens. Chandler contacted the White Council of his time (he’s a historian so he would know) and finally got himself appointed as Warden and promptly went into stasis with important information for Harry. He hasn’t been able to tell Harry yet because it would create a paradox, he would know this from him temporal studies.
He went back far enough that it was greater than a normal wizards lifespan, stasis was his only option, perhaps about 620 years? Even so Chandler may be much older.
Avernite:
--- Quote from: Mira on October 29, 2020, 05:05:40 PM ---In fairness to Carlos I think he recent experience with the Winter Lady did damage him more than physically. You cannot blame him if he thinks Molly is a monster now, and by extension, Harry. How much does Luccio and the Senior Council know about how Carlos was injured? Knowing it was just the excuse they needed to get rid of Harry.
--- End quote ---
Is it damage?
Everyone, Harry very much included, feared he'd become Mab's pet monster. Carlos and some of Harry's other friends were willing to extend the benefit of the doubt, but they all feared it.
Now, Carlos did the same thing for Molly - Winter Lady, but maybe still kind of the same person? And then Cold Case happens.
Cue Carlos concluding it was all wishful thinking that anyone could fall into Mab's clutches and not become a monster. All very logical and exactly what Harry expected going in.
Is it damage to conclude what Harry expected is really happening, on insufficient evidence? Or is it quite rational?
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