The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
"Talk To Me..." Had Carlos Already Drank the Kool-Aid?
KurtinStGeorge:
--- Quote from: Snark Knight on October 29, 2020, 04:49:04 PM ---In fairness to Carlos, there's really no reason for not explaining that the extreme exercise is precisely to keep the mantle exhausted, when he knows damn well that Carlos is wondering about whether he's being overtaken by it. Maybe he'd believe it, maybe not, but creating doubt about the "he's already a monster" narrative is worth sharing something harmless.
--- End quote ---
That sounds like a good idea, but think it through. After hearing Harry's explanation, and assuming he believed it, it might be logical for Carlos to think to himself, "Damn, Harry has to exercise like some caged criminal; make that super steroided up caged criminal, just to keep from going over the edge. It's worse than I thought. At best, Harry is a time bomb. At worst, he's already cracked and doesn't know it."
vincentric:
Carlos is just making bad decisions because of PTSD.
When he sees Harry on the beach, he's still recovering from his injuries from Cold Case. Then when he confronts Harry on the road, Harry threatens him with Molly. Harry isn't blameless here but he he the bullseye on Carlo's damaged psyche unknowingly and it makes Carlos react to an extreme.
Then at the end of Peace Talks, Carlos is dealing with Harry's use of him as a distraction. Embarrassing any man is playing with fire, but especially so with Hispanics. Then at the funeral, Carlos is dealing with the deaths of Wild Bill, Chandler and Yoshimo and feels that his only other friend, Harry, has betrayed his trust.
A lot of the tension in this dynamic would be helped(not solved) if they could rewind after the big battle over a beer but both have duties that keep them apart and the ill feelings just fester.
Bad Alias:
--- Quote from: Mira on October 29, 2020, 10:57:09 PM ---The point is, ...
--- End quote ---
Once again, that's your point. Not the point. You're not addressing the point others are raising.
Mira:
--- Quote from: Bad Alias on October 30, 2020, 02:32:32 AM ---Once again, that's your point. Not the point. You're not addressing the point others are raising.
--- End quote ---
I am addressing my point...
--- Quote ---That sounds like a good idea, but think it through. After hearing Harry's explanation, and assuming he believed it, it might be logical for Carlos to think to himself, "Damn, Harry has to exercise like some caged criminal; make that super steroided up caged criminal, just to keep from going over the edge. It's worse than I thought. At best, Harry is a time bomb. At worst, he's already cracked and doesn't know it."
--- End quote ---
Yes, and a friend might ask those questions to Harry. Carlos did not. Actually when you think of it, it doesn't matter what Carlos thinks, he is following someone's orders to track Harry. This is before the crap hit the fan with Thomas, but it is clear, and when Eb shows up it is confirmed, someone wants Harry out of the White Council. Carlos has been sent, undercover you might say to gather evidence. That is the only way to explain a tracker ink dot secretly placed on Harry's wrist.
--- Quote ---Carlos is just making bad decisions because of PTSD.
--- End quote ---
I won't disagree with that, but he is also following someone's orders. His PTSD, has made it easier by who ever gave them to convince him.
--- Quote ---When he sees Harry on the beach, he's still recovering from his injuries from Cold Case. Then when he confronts Harry on the road, Harry threatens him with Molly. Harry isn't blameless here but he he the bullseye on Carlo's damaged psyche unknowingly and it makes Carlos react to an extreme.
--- End quote ---
Harry was reacting to the fact that his friend had put a secret track on him. No, Harry didn't threaten him with Molly on the road. It did piss him off that they put a track on him, in ink like Peabody, then accused him of being under White Court influence.
--- Quote ---Then at the end of Peace Talks, Carlos is dealing with Harry's use of him as a distraction. Embarrassing any man is playing with fire, but especially so with Hispanics. Then at the funeral, Carlos is dealing with the deaths of Wild Bill, Chandler and Yoshimo and feels that his only other friend, Harry, has betrayed his trust.
--- End quote ---
I agree with him dealing with the fact that Harry embarrassed him. However when he put that tracker dot on Harry, Carlos betrayed Harry's trust.
KurtinStGeorge:
--- Quote from: Mira on October 30, 2020, 03:17:29 AM ---No, Harry didn't threaten him with Molly on the road.
--- End quote ---
Yes, I agree with you, but you just gave my an idea. In their final conversation, when Harry was demonstrating to Carlos what a real threat is, one of the things Harry said was:
"The Winter Lady might not take it kindly, either, (The Council going after Harry.) and you saw what she's capable of doing."
Carlos cheek twitched and he could only meekly answer:
"Yes, I did."
Harry then finished by saying:
That was a threat, Carlos..."
Harry was referring to Molly's scary performance during the battle. He doesn't know what Molly did to Carlos, but Carlos doesn't know that Harry doesn't know. For all Carlos Ramirez knows, Molly may have joked with Harry about how she first came on to virgin Warden and then tore him apart. From Carlos' perspective Harry may have just made a very personal threat against him to have Molly finish the job.
The PTSD Carlos Ramirez is suffering from doesn't come from being crippled by the Fomor in some random firefight, it comes from being crippled by Molly. And what Molly did to Warden Ramirez didn't happen in a firefight or battle; from Carlos' perspective it was an unprovoked near instantaneous slaughter which he somehow survived, and that Carlos couldn't have stopped even if he had seen it coming. There's something that would give anyone nightmares.
I'm feeling a little more sympathy for Carlos at the moment. Whoever gave Warden Ramirez his orders didn't have to do much, or any, manipulation to get him to place the tracking spell on Harry. They would have to be seen that Carlos was primed to go in that direction from the physical and mental punishment he had suffered at the Winter Lady's hands. Thinking this through, I believe the gulf between Harry and his former friend is far wider than I originally thought when I first read that exchange.
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