The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Mab and Lara
Arjan:
--- Quote from: Mira on January 21, 2021, 04:42:04 PM ---Knowing full well what would happen, her actual aim I think was thinking that if anyone could get access to the artifacts, it would be Harry. It was also a deal she made a deal with Marcone for him to get vengeance for Nic and Company's kidnapping of him back in Small Favor. In other words, it was a set up. Mab would say that she paid her debt to Nic by loaning him her Winter Knight to gain access to the vault, but at the same time takes no responsibility for her Knight going off the reservation a bit, which she knew perfectly well he'd do. So one has to wonder, is this marriage proposal a similar set up of the White Court? Or perhaps Harry? Molly knows something and perhaps at this time cannot divulge it, I am thinking of that cold look she gave Lara that Harry "missed" after the kracken was defeated. I think there was more to it than simple dislike.
--- End quote ---
Harry did not get off the reservation, He waited for Nic’s betrayal and gave him what he asked for. Just like small favor Harry’s plan was based on Nic lying to him and betraying him. If NIC had told the truth about what he wanted he would have had it now.
NIC is convinced lying and betraying helps him but with Harry it seldom does.
Both Harry and Mab build their plans on that.
Mira:
--- Quote from: Arjan on January 21, 2021, 05:11:37 PM ---Harry did not get off the reservation, He waited for Nic’s betrayal and gave him what he asked for. Just like small favor Harry’s plan was based on Nic lying to him and betraying him. If NIC had told the truth about what he wanted he would have had it now.
NIC is convinced lying and betraying helps him but with Harry it seldom does.
Both Harry and Mab build their plainsong that.
--- End quote ---
Harry did in the sense that he kept the artifacts and I don't believe he intends to share them with Mab. Though she may claim that Harry's aims with them are the same as hers. However, it was a set up for revenge from the beginning, Mab never intended to "pay back any favor to Nic," nor was she trying to balance the scales, nor did she tell Harry in advance that this was the plan, which in effect set him up as well. Harry wanted her to know that he knows, he also got the feeling that he and Molly both had to be on the look out for "payback" from Mab for that little scene.. The proposed marriage to Lara might be part of that. Also important to note that Mab doesn't have a problem with lying, in effect her offering Harry to Nic to help to get into the vault as a payment of a debt, was a lie. So supposedly the Fae cannot lie, as we've seen, they can, just not outright and they are very tricky.
Arjan:
--- Quote from: Mira on January 21, 2021, 06:01:31 PM ---Harry did in the sense that he kept the artifacts and I don't believe he intends to share them with Mab. Though she may claim that Harry's aims with them are the same as hers. However, it was a set up for revenge from the beginning, Mab never intended to "pay back any favor to Nic," nor was she trying to balance the scales, nor did she tell Harry in advance that this was the plan, which in effect set him up as well. Harry wanted her to know that he knows, he also got the feeling that he and Molly both had to be on the look out for "payback" from Mab for that little scene.. The proposed marriage to Lara might be part of that. Also important to note that Mab doesn't have a problem with lying, in effect her offering Harry to Nic to help to get into the vault as a payment of a debt, was a lie. So supposedly the Fae cannot lie, as we've seen, they can, just not outright and they are very tricky.
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There was no reason for Harry not to keep the artifacts. Hades obviously agreed with it and Mab did not say anything about the spoils. He kept the diamonds as well. Nic got what he said he wanted and if NIC wanted to get out safely with the knife he should have stated his objectives better and more truthful.
Mab fully expected Harry to repay her favor to NIC and he did. That is totally separate from the other goals she had.
Mab was balancing the scales in more than one way. She is not obliged to explain everything to Harry, she wants him to figure things out, she is training his brains.
And Mab did not lie, not in the Sidhe sense of the word. She did not tell untruths. And everyone broadly knew each other’s objectives, Mab told Harry and probably Anduriel in the elevator. The only one lying and betraying was Nic and it did not help him because everyone was expecting it and even based their plans on it.
Bad Alias:
--- Quote from: Avernite on January 20, 2021, 10:32:52 PM ---Let's remember that this is Mab sending Harry and Molly to ally with the White Court. So WAG time.
When some alliance with the Fomor and Svartalves was happening, Lea threw in Molly to up the 'entropy' of the situation, and see it blow up. What if Mab is really pushing Molly and Harry into the White Court's arms because she needs Lara down a few pegs? Harry will make the whole thing more voltaile, and with Lara only a power BEHIND the throne, maybe chaos will see the Court fall back into chaos, after she so neatly cleared it up in White Night.
I mean, Mab did also pay a debt to Nicodemus by sending Harry...
--- End quote ---
One difference is that Harry always screwed up Nic's plans, and Harry's plans always left Lara better off than she would have been absent his involvement, excepting some minor things that involved Thomas, and not the White Court. Though, Harry always had Lara less well off than she planned whenever she thought she was the one manipulating him.
Mira:
--- Quote ---And Mab did not lie, not in the Sidhe sense of the word. She did not tell untruths. And everyone broadly knew each other’s objectives, Mab told Harry and probably Anduriel in the elevator. The only one lying and betraying was Nic and it did not help him because everyone was expecting it and even based their plans on it.
--- End quote ---
Oh but she did, it was Nic's understanding that she was loaning Harry to him to help him in his mission to break into the vault as pay for a favor. However Mab's plan all along was to help Marcone get his revenge and to punish Nic for breaking the Accords when he kidnapped Marcone. Her and Marcone along with Hades worked together for years to make this set up happen. Since she hid all of that from Nic, she was lying by omission in every sense of the word. That is why Harry and Molly called her on it.
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