The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Mab and Lara
vincentric:
--- Quote from: Mira on January 21, 2021, 11:00:24 PM ---Oh but she did, it was Nic's understanding that she was loaning Harry to him to help him in his mission to break into the vault as pay for a favor. However Mab's plan all along was to help Marcone get his revenge and to punish Nic for breaking the Accords when he kidnapped Marcone. Her and Marcone along with Hades worked together for years to make this set up happen. Since she hid all of that from Nic, she was lying by omission in every sense of the word. That is why Harry and Molly called her on it.
--- End quote ---
All the powers in the Dresdenverse lie to each other by omission. They all work under the assumption that the others have a hidden agenda and plan accordingly.
So yes, Mab lied by omission. But the plan she made was contingent on Nicodemus not playing it straight. He lied about his objectives(Which left Harry free to grab the other artifacts as part of his share.) and he left out his intention to murder Harry, Murphy/Michael, Anna and perhaps Binder after the job. If he'd been honest about his objectives and non-homicidal, Harry would have had to be the one to first break oath when Michael objected to Nicodemus taking the Grail.
Arjan:
--- Quote from: Mira on January 21, 2021, 11:00:24 PM ---Oh but she did, it was Nic's understanding that she was loaning Harry to him to help him in his mission to break into the vault as pay for a favor.
--- End quote ---
Which he did. Which was the only thing he expected from Mab another only thing that was offered.
--- Quote ---However Mab's plan all along was to help Marcone get his revenge and to punish Nic for breaking the Accords when he kidnapped Marcone.
--- End quote ---
Strictly speaking that was her backup plan in case NIC would betray her and Harry which to be fair was inevitable knowing Nic’s nature.
--- Quote --- Her and Marcone along with Hades worked together for years to make this set up happen. Since she hid all of that from Nic, she was lying by omission in every sense of the word.
--- End quote ---
To have a plan ready in case NIC betrays you is just common sense. In fact she offered Nic a chance to be honest and get most of what he wanted but Nic stated his goal in a way meant to make it easier for him to betray Harry and of course it backfired.
Just like small favor it showed that lying and betraying is not always the best way to reach your goal especially not against the Sidhe, it gives them a handle to get at you.
--- Quote ---That is why Harry and Molly called her on it.
--- End quote ---
Calling Mab on it was not about how she handled Nic. It was about how she handled Harry and Molly.
Arjan:
--- Quote from: vincentric on January 22, 2021, 02:41:39 AM ---All the powers in the Dresdenverse lie to each other by omission. They all work under the assumption that the others have a hidden agenda and plan accordingly.
So yes, Mab lied by omission.
--- End quote ---
Not really. Lying by omission in this case is leaving out some information so the other party gets the wrong idea about your intentions. Nic never got the wrong idea about what Harry and Mab wanted to do. Only about the how and when.
Nic probably had a better idea about what Mab wanted to do and what her limitations were than Harry.
--- Quote --- But the plan she made was contingent on Nicodemus not playing it straight. He lied about his objectives(Which left Harry free to grab the other artifacts as part of his share.) and he left out his intention to murder Harry, Murphy/Michael, Anna and perhaps Binder after the job. If he'd been honest about his objectives and non-homicidal, Harry would have had to be the one to first break oath when Michael objected to Nicodemus taking the Grail.
--- End quote ---
Which would make it difficult or even impossible for Michael to help him which would have doomed Harry.
Nic only had to play it honest and he would have won and Mab could have done nothing about it and she knew. But she also knew that Nicodemus would never play it honest. He asked for the winter knight to get the opportunity to kill him.
She set him up of course but only so she could better plan for his betrayal.
morriswalters:
If the whole White Court doesn't know Lara is in control then they are dunces. Using daddy as a cats paw makes her stronger because of what it says about her ability to do a thing that the White Court values highly.
What Lara is marrying is the Mantle. What she gets from it is a chance to call on the Courts if she needs them. What Mab gets from it is the connections in the real world that she would otherwise not have. There may be other things that Jim has thought of.
Harry is safe as long as he is Mab's champion. While Lara can dominate Harry she can't dominate the Mantle. Mab would kill her or the Mantle would, if she betrays the bargain, and she is perfectly safe if she doesn't.
On the matter of Skin Game, no one was lying at any time. There were mutual obligations involved and they were acting as courtesy demanded. Nic knew that Mab was out to end him. Mab knew Nic would kill Harry as soon as he had what he went to the vault to get. Hades needed to know that Harry could win in a contest against Nicodemus in this context. Mab actually states it explicitly.
Mab can't use the weapons. They have to be wielded by humans. And her court isn't a safe place to hold them. Demonreach is perfect for that use in that context.
One of the side effects of putting Thomas in stir is that it removes him as a tool. Neither Harry of Lara can use him.
One side note mentioned in another thread. This, we're going to take a boat trip, is getting old and stale. Since Harry can't use the ways to get to Demonreach then the teleportation used by Marcone is a perfect plot device to cut out boat trips.
Mira:
--- Quote ---On the matter of Skin Game, no one was lying at any time. There were mutual obligations involved and they were acting as courtesy demanded. Nic knew that Mab was out to end him. Mab knew Nic would kill Harry as soon as he had what he went to the vault to get. Hades needed to know that Harry could win in a contest against Nicodemus in this context. Mab actually states it explicitly.
--- End quote ---
But Harry was lied to by Mab, the lie of omission because she never leveled with him from the beginning. She kept Molly away from him because she'd have told him the truth of what was really going on. That is what the final confrontation between Harry, Molly, Marcone and Mab was all about at the end of Skin Game.
--- Quote ---"You could have told me from the beginning," I said to Mab.
--- End quote ---
He then goes on, on the next page.
--- Quote ---Then Mab finally spoke, her voice sepulchral. "Do you have a point, my Knight?"
"I wanted to let you know that I knew,"I said.
--- End quote ---
He didn't say it outright, but the implication is clear, he was lied to from the beginning and as a result an innocent died, Murphy was severely crippled, and a Holy Sword was broken. It doesn't matter that Nic knew that Mab wanted to end him, the mission was a set up supposedly as far as
Harry knew to repay a favor, which put him under constraints from the beginning. Mab still lied to him. That is why Molly was there, she was backing him up, because Mab made her part of the lie by keeping her away from Harry.
That is why Mab appears to be so pissed in this scene, she had lied to her Knight and he called her on it.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version