The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers

Who really killed ... BG spoilers!!!!

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The_Sibelis:

--- Quote from: Arjan on October 18, 2020, 03:30:38 PM ---It does not litterally exist because the memory is still in the brain but that is not important in this context. What is important is that it is a real effect that is called muscle memory and can be used to train people. That is used to train people.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muscle_memory

--- End quote ---
if it's not in the muscles, then it's inaccurate. Like the four humors don't literally exist but the idea was successfully used to treat ailments for years. It's also entirely wrong, based on limited understanding and promotes a high degree of misunderstanding in its idea and verbage.

--- Quote ---Both real world police training and Rudy's repeated lack of trigger discipline both suggest that he was poorly trained on firearms.

If you're halfway decently trained on firearms, you're not going to have your finger on the trigger until you've decided you're willing for the gun to go bang.
--- End quote ---
but despite my own limited training with guns I know this, and I mean I know it like a principle I've always adhered to any time I've held a gun. This is why I don't think it was merely lack of training. General breaking down of the psyche and ones beliefs and principles might have such an effect though, as the mind tries to realign itself under a new banner. Someone convinced him Harry and Murphy were monsters.. perhaps his mind was thrown into chaos and was trying to wrap itself around the new status quo?
 I still remember a time when Rudy threatened Dresden if anything happened to Murphy... Him going on to point a gun in her face ready to blow her away is definitely a mental dissonance. Something happened to change his mind, if not an actual psychic attack then the slow eroding of his mind from more mundane 'mind expansion'.

Arjan:

--- Quote from: The_Sibelis on October 19, 2020, 05:54:35 AM ---if it's not in the muscles, then it's inaccurate. Like the four humors don't literally exist but the idea was successfully used to treat ailments for years. It's also entirely wrong, based on limited understanding and promotes a high degree of misunderstanding in its idea and verbage.

--- End quote ---
Human language does not always work that way. The meaning and understanding of words can change and we can use the word even if we know that the cuttlefish is not really a fish. It is still there. And we still use the word even when we know it is not a fish. We can use the proper Latin name for it if you want but nobody does and nobody recognizes it except for a few scientists that study the animal.

The generally accepted term for the thing is muscle memory, maybe not memory of the muscles but memory for the muscles or about what the muscles should do but that is still the term and until somebody comes with a better term it stays.

And there is a clear difference with the four humors. The four humors do not describe something that happens and needs an explanation, they are an explanation for something that does not happen. They are a unicorn, not a cuttlefish.

So get a new word for cuttlefish if you want but until you do I have to assume you think the animal does not exist which is plainly absurd.

--- Quote ---but despite my own limited training with guns I know this, and I mean I know it like a principle I've always adhered to any time I've held a gun. This is why I don't think it was merely lack of training. General breaking down of the psyche and ones beliefs and principles might have such an effect though, as the mind tries to realign itself under a new banner. Someone convinced him Harry and Murphy were monsters.. perhaps his mind was thrown into chaos and was trying to wrap itself around the new status quo?
 I still remember a time when Rudy threatened Dresden if anything happened to Murphy... Him going on to point a gun in her face ready to blow her away is definitely a mental dissonance. Something happened to change his mind, if not an actual psychic attack then the slow eroding of his mind from more mundane 'mind expansion'.

--- End quote ---
You know it but when you move you have to think about it. That is not enough for a properly trained person.

It is like me playing the piano. I know what key is what note and I can read notes from a score but that does not mean I can play the piano. I do not know how to do it properly. I have to think where to put my finger, I can not just hear the note in my head and get the right key immediately and so on.

The_Sibelis:
And Rudolph hit b flat and it came out A minor instead.
Operant conditioning, there, a better word already exist. Something to describe motor learning, also a more accurate term.
https://www.popsci.com/what-is-muscle-memory/
And nobody who believed in the four humors would agree, however you sound just like me there arguing muscle memory isn't a real thing. Muscle memory is an explanation of something that does not happen.

Arjan:

--- Quote from: The_Sibelis on October 19, 2020, 08:02:12 AM ---And Rudolph hit b flat and it came out A minor instead.
Operant conditioning, there, a better word already exist. Something to describe motor learning, also a more accurate term.
https://www.popsci.com/what-is-muscle-memory/
And nobody who believed in the four humors would agree,

--- End quote ---

And nobody who believed in unicorns either. But that is not the point.

--- Quote ---however you sound just like me there arguing muscle memory isn't a real thing. Muscle memory is an explanation of something that does not happen.

--- End quote ---
It is not an explanation, it is a term, a word. Language is that way. It does not always work as clean as you would like.

I had similar discussions with colleagues. Human language does not work like a programming language. This is the universally used term.

https://www.greatbritishchefs.com/how-to-cook/how-to-cook-cuttlefish

Note that the tentacles of the cuttlefish are called wings. No fish has tentacles and you can’t use tentacles for flying. They still exist.

The_Sibelis:

--- Quote ---And nobody who believed in unicorns either. But that is not the point.
--- End quote ---
when something like 90% of the fossil record is incomplete and things happen like the dodo bird where people didn't believe it existed until it was actually proven, could you in fact prove unicorns don't and never have exist? I fail to see your point.
Muscle memory IS used as an explanation. It's directly used as an explanation in fact... Language is a vessel for an idea to convey an explanation of an idea into solid terms others can understand.. and I think your misunderstanding why they're called wings... "Once launched by this jet propulsion, these squid spread out both their fins and their tentacles to form wings." Because its a verb too, and it's used to define things that complete such verbage. I don't know why your linking how to cook cuttlefish.. wrong link?

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