The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Whose the backup plan for...? - Battle Ground Spoiler
Conspiracy Theorist:
Right every 666 years a Starborn is created.Suppose at that point there is a single universe in which the Starborn are created, but that universe branches based on decisions that Starborn makes until the BAT arrives, at that point only one of the multitudes of branched universes has the possibility of producing a Starborn capable of defeating the Outsiders in that ‘Endgame’ all other branched universes are destroyed by the White God to prevent the Outsiders getting in, leaving a single universe which will start branching again when the next Starborn is created.
All other universes (such as this) exist but are not directly vulnerable to the Outsiders, but if the Outsiders get into The Engame universe and win, then all of these other universes are vulnerable, putting all of reality at risk.
This would require that the Dresdenverse is a local group of the multiverse which ranges from one to perhaps hundreds of universes depending at which point of the cycle it is at. This is complicated where there is more than one Starborn as it would massively increase the number of the local Dresdenverse universes in which one cannot be sure is the Engame universe.
The_Sibelis:
Every 666 years the star born cycle happens. I need to go back over that Convo(only have audible 😒) but one thing I see ppl getting consistently wrong is thinking only one Starborn at a time... Listens is mortal, he can't be older than most wizards alive today. He was born in the same cycle as Harry. thinking of starborn as a singular occurrence is wrong. Even if the light only shines for a couple hours on a singular day that's not going to be just one child.
toodeep:
It is clear from what Jim has said that there can be multiple starborn, and that to be starborn you need two things:
1. To be born at roughly the right time. Apparently it wasn't an exact minute kinda thing, and Harry and Elaine were both contenders, so it may even range over months.
2. They need to be "activated" in some way. Not everyone who was born on Harry's birthday is a Starborn, but I suspect Harry has been since he was "activated" by HWWB.
It is clear from what bigfoot said that this is a normal process - something big is coming, and it is normal and important to have starborn when it does. The older wizards are hanging on to have some say in whatever the big thing is that's coming.
It's clear from what Listen's said to Ethnui that he is a Starborn, and that makes him valuable. It seems to me that every faction that wants to be a player in whatever is coming (some like the Svartelves may just want to keep their heads down) needs to have a Starborn.
Potential/known Starborn:
1. Harry
2. Listen (deceased?)
3. Drakul (probably on team evil - possibly a former human starborn who sucked in an outsider and now cohabitates with it mentally, immune to its control but warped by it anyways?)
3. Elaine (per WOJ)
4. Gatekeep (would make sense for position, is he old enough to be Starborn from 666 years ago?)
5. English guy in Demonreach?
And that leads me to a big question, who is the White Council's Starborn? They crap all over Harry all the time and just threw him out. There is no way they would be throwing him out if he was their plan. So who are they grooming to be their Starborn contender? Harry is really the only person of his generation we see, everyone else is always markedly older or younger, and since all starborn should be the same age that means we haven't seen a contender yet.
KurtinStGeorge:
--- Quote from: toodeep on October 21, 2020, 06:16:15 PM ---It is clear from what Jim has said that there can be multiple starborn, and that to be starborn you need two things:
1. To be born at roughly the right time. Apparently it wasn't an exact minute kinda thing, and Harry and Elaine were both contenders, so it may even range over months.
2. They need to be "activated" in some way. Not everyone who was born on Harry's birthday is a Starborn, but I suspect Harry has been since he was "activated" by HWWB.
It is clear from what bigfoot said that this is a normal process - something big is coming, and it is normal and important to have starborn when it does. The older wizards are hanging on to have some say in whatever the big thing is that's coming.
It's clear from what Listen's said to Ethnui that he is a Starborn, and that makes him valuable. It seems to me that every faction that wants to be a player in whatever is coming (some like the Svartelves may just want to keep their heads down) needs to have a Starborn.
Potential/known Starborn:
1. Harry
2. Listen (deceased?)
3. Drakul (probably on team evil - possibly a former human starborn who sucked in an outsider and now cohabitates with it mentally, immune to its control but warped by it anyways?)
3. Elaine (per WOJ)
4. Gatekeep (would make sense for position, is he old enough to be Starborn from 666 years ago?)
5. English guy in Demonreach?
And that leads me to a big question, who is the White Council's Starborn? They crap all over Harry all the time and just threw him out. There is no way they would be throwing him out if he was their plan. So who are they grooming to be their Starborn contender? Harry is really the only person of his generation we see, everyone else is always markedly older or younger, and since all starborn should be the same age that means we haven't seen a contender yet.
--- End quote ---
You know, there is one other person we can add to the list of possible starborn individuals. Nicodemus could be starborn from a previous cycle. 3 x 666 years = 1998 years. That would put Nicodemus' birth roughly a couple of decades before the birth of Jesus, about 24 BC
Here is the math. According to the official Dresden Files timeline, Harry was born roughly 26 years before the events in Storm Front. If Storm Front takes place in 2000, that puts Harry's birth in 1974. A year or two either way doesn't make a significant difference in the overall calculation.
If Nicodemus is starborn; born in or very near 24 BC, he would have been in his mid-fifties around the time of The Crucifixion. Not an impossible age to reach back then, but for most people it would have been old age or very close to what would have been considered old age back then.
Someone had to gather up the thirty pieces of silver to place the fallen in. Someone had to take the noose that Judas used to hang himself from the body. Why not Nicodemus? This would mean that Nicodemus was the very first Denarian as well as being Starborn. There is no direct evidence in the Dresden Files novels for this to be the case, but it feels right.
I don't think Tessa can be Starborn. Nicodemus takes her; probably buys her, from a brothel in Greece (Thessalonica) when she is still a teenager. If Tessa was born in 24 BC or a year or two in either direction, there weren't any Denarians when Nicodemus found her and Nic wouldn't have been one at the time.
It is still possible but it's messy. A wealthy person in the Roman Empire who purchased a sex slave wouldn't marry her. It might happen in a Hollywood movie, but not in real life. I think they marry after they become Denarians, because they both would have been outside of normal society then, but that is just my guess. In any case, Tessa lacks the gravitas to feel like a character who might be starborn.
I started this thread four years ago asking the question, "Who is Mab's backup plan?" Her backup if Harry can't stop Nemesis or Harry dies before the final confrontation. The answer is obvious now. It must be Nicodemus.
Mab got her revenge against Nicodemus by manipulating him to kill his own daughter; the only person Nic could trust to have his back. Mab isn't above turning around and using Nicodemus if she deems it necessary.
Mira:
--- Quote ---Potential/known Starborn:
1. Harry
2. Listen (deceased?)
3. Drakul (probably on team evil - possibly a former human starborn who sucked in an outsider and now cohabitates with it mentally, immune to its control but warped by it anyways?)
3. Elaine (per WOJ)
4. Gatekeep (would make sense for position, is he old enough to be Starborn from 666 years ago?)
5. English guy in Demonreach?
--- End quote ---
All important, but one has to ask the question, what in the hell is a starborn? We know supposedly that one of Harry's talents if you could call it that is he has power over Outsiders. Is that true of all starborn? Or is Harry unique? Rashid may fit, he fights Outsiders at the Outer Gates, and he may be old enough to be born 666 years ago, but at the same time being born in the right year doesn't a starborn make.. There are other factors that go into it if Lash is to be believed. What of Listen and Drakul? Do they have power over Outsiders as well? Or were they formed for something else?
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