Butters *battle grounds*

[StrayDog]

I don't think so. I think that when Molly needs Harry help in something that roughly balances her favor to him, she will cash it, want it or not. But we will see.

There is also the question of just how human she still is. She may already be more like Mab then Molly now and Harry seems to be taking her loyalty for granted, Red Cap's reaction on the rooftop. Could be JB setting the stage for a nasty shock.

[Mira]

There is also the question of just how human she still is. She may already be more like Mab then Molly now and Harry seems to be taking her loyalty for granted, Red Cap's reaction on the rooftop. Could be JB setting the stage for a nasty shock.

I don't think he takes it for granted, Harry knows she isn't the Molly he knew, and I think he understands after Battle Ground the process that steals humanity away from the Queens bit by bit.

[Arjan]

I don't think he takes it for granted, Harry knows she isn't the Molly he knew, and I think he understands after Battle Ground the process that steals humanity away from the Queens bit by bit.

But she is on Harry's side and that counts for something. Her nature might create problems but it also makes her not to lie about that. And finding a way around such problems is what the Sidhe do.

[Doughnut Despot]

All I'm gonna say is that Butter was a more likable character before the magic sword. IMO Jim would be better off dumping the sword and moving on to something that makes Butters awesome because of who he is. Something nerdy. The swords are pretty much the opposite of that.

I don't have a problem with Butters as athletic, but I don't feel like he's found his own niche yet; He's just role playing Harry with a sword.

[StrayDog]

All I'm gonna say is that Butter was a more likable character before the magic sword. IMO Jim would be better off dumping the sword and moving on to something that makes Butters awesome because of who he is. Something nerdy. The swords are pretty much the opposite of that.

I don't have a problem with Butters as athletic, but I don't feel like he's found his own niche yet; He's just role playing Harry with a sword.

Yes, I too would rather have seen Butters remain the nerd who makes the most of Bob's and his intelligence to fight along with the Alphas. Really don't care if he's in a relationship with one, two, or the whole pack just don't like the lightsaber super Jedi bit. From a different thread: Murph would still be alive, would be a KotC, could be gone plenty on assignments, etc but still brought back into the series whenever JB wants.

[Mira]

Yes, I too would rather have seen Butters remain the nerd who makes the most of Bob's and his intelligence to fight along with the Alphas. Really don't care if he's in a relationship with one, two, or the whole pack just don't like the lightsaber super Jedi bit. From a different threat: Murph would still be alive, would be a KotC, could be gone plenty on assignments, etc but still brought back into the series whenever JB wants.

Except being a KotC didn't fit her personality, has nothing to do with whether or not she was a good woman, a good warrior, but her beliefs just didn't fit.. Nor did she enjoy the angel taking over as it did in Changes.  Once Jim took her off the police force I think he had a hard time finding the proper fit.

[Dina]

But she is on Harry's side and that counts for something. Her nature might create problems but it also makes her not to lie about that. And finding a way around such problems is what the Sidhe do.

I agree with that. Also, there is a WoJ about how you are what you eat and how, basically, how fairy food is not food for humans. Priscellie asked him if even about Molly, and what she have been eating and JB told her that Molly is too clever for that (Or something around those lines, I am quoting of memory). I think that is why Molly had not been eating much (in PT she mentions that she had not food in more than a day and Harry speak about how skinny she is, but with faeries that may not meant too much). I think she is trying to eat human food mostly.

About Butters, I think the Sword is precisely "something nerdy". It's a lightsaber, for Luke's sake.

[StrayDog]

Except being a KotC didn't fit her personality, has nothing to do with whether or not she was a good woman, a good warrior, but her beliefs just didn't fit.. Nor did she enjoy the angel taking over as it did in Changes.  Once Jim took her off the police force I think he had a hard time finding the proper fit.

Quite frankly, Murphs personality is anything JB wants to write it as. He is far and away talented enough to write that defining moment Murph reconciles with her past. Talented enough to have Murph lunge for the sword too, just be able to knock it closer to Michael's yard where Butters can get it or maybe even JUST far enough to be safe. As a result Nic gets hold of Murph and busts her up. In the next book he could write Murph using rehab exercises, maybe even like Michaels, to recover. Somewhere along the line is the defining moment where she realizes she wants to pick up the sword again. This is all within the author's prevue.

[Mira]

Quite frankly, Murphs personality is anything JB wants to write it as. He is far and away talented enough to write that defining moment Murph reconciles with her past. Talented enough to have Murph lunge for the sword too, just be able to knock it closer to Michael's yard where Butters can get it or maybe even JUST far enough to be safe. As a result Nic gets hold of Murph and busts her up. In the next book he could write Murph using rehab exercises, maybe even like Michaels, to recover. Somewhere along the line is the defining moment where she realizes she wants to pick up the sword again. This is all within the author's prevue.

Yes, her personality could be anything that Jim wanted to be.  And the one in the books is the personality he wanted for her.  And I also think, as much as it hurts to lose her, that as a reader
you wouldn't want it any different either if you think about it.  If he had her do as you suggest, the qualities that made her Murphy would change, and you'd still lose her.

[TheCuriousFan]

There is also the question of just how human she still is. She may already be more like Mab then Molly now and Harry seems to be taking her loyalty for granted, Red Cap's reaction on the rooftop. Could be JB setting the stage for a nasty shock.

She's changing but I still have faith in that Cold Case description.

I really enjoyed writing, in the previous tale, from Molly’s viewpoint at one of the lowest points of her life. I wanted to keep following her personal story after the events of Ghost Story, where she faces an uncertain future but is beginning to rebuild who she is and what she wants out of her life. Molly has always had issues with her mother—and now, as the new Winter Lady of the Unseelie Court, she has found herself faced with one of the more terrifying mother figures imaginable in Mab, the Queen of Air and Darkness. I wanted to get a look at that interplay, but I had to write the story to do it.

I also wanted to get a little bit more into the actual role of the Winter Lady in the circles of power that are the Faerie Courts, and why her role is so important, and why it was so distressing that Maeve had been shirking her duties for such a long time.

And finally, I wanted to show more of Molly, who has been through so much and learned such bitter lessons—and to demonstrate why it might just be possible that Mab may have bitten off more than she could chew in the inestimable Miss Carpenter.

[Mira]

She's changing but I still have faith in that Cold Case description.

Me too, Molly is proving so far at least that a Winter Queen can be as sane and reasonable as a Summer Queen.  Cold Case also shows the key work the Lady actually does.  It is no accident that Nemesis targeted the Ladies of both courts. 

[StrayDog]

Yes, her personality could be anything that Jim wanted to be.  And the one in the books is the personality he wanted for her.  And I also think, as much as it hurts to lose her, that as a reader
you wouldn't want it any different either if you think about it.  If he had her do as you suggest, the qualities that made her Murphy would change, and you'd still lose her.

Hate to tell you but as a reader who has given this a great deal of thought, I would like the character better a different way. Hence my position that I disagree with JB's choices for Murph and Butters starting from the point I feel JB could have written differently. There are people who think the Mona Lisa should have been painted differently too, the counter point isn't "that's the way he painted her". JB has plans for Murph but probably needs her to be able to withstand more combat damage. My guess is that I will still disagree with his choices there too.

[morriswalters]

@morriswalters
pretty sure you know I was referring to Harry as the male not Molly

What?  I was referring to Butter being the object of wish fulfillment. He represents forty year old adolescents wanting to believe that at forty they could have washboard abs and fight monsters.  Maybe I misunderstood you.

Molly's been Winter Lady a couple of years. Mab pretty much implied that she would be walking Harry around with a leash if she ascended to Queen, and maybe worse.

“Kill Molly Carpenter,” she said calmly. “As quickly as possible.” “Funny,” I said. Mab stared at me. Of course. She hadn’t been joking. On a normal day, I would have been more upset. Today already hurt so much that I hardly noticed. Mab wanted me to kill someone. She usually did. It was sort of my job description. I frowned dully at her. “Why?” “As Winter Lady, she shows promise,” Mab said. “But she is not ready to become Mab. The consequences would be . . . unsettling. For both of you. Perhaps for all of Winter.”

Butcher, Jim. Battle Ground (Dresden Files) (pp. 219-220). Penguin Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.

[Dina]

 
That is an interpretation, we don't know what she actually means.

[Mira]

Hate to tell you but as a reader who has given this a great deal of thought, I would like the character better a different way. Hence my position that I disagree with JB's choices for Murph and Butters starting from the point I feel JB could have written differently. There are people who think the Mona Lisa should have been painted differently too, the counter point isn't "that's the way he painted her". JB has plans for Murph but probably needs her to be able to withstand more combat damage. My guess is that I will still disagree with his choices there too.

She got fenced in somewhat from the beginning, athletically gifted in hand to hand combat, crack shot, smart, cop's mentality about justice and the law.  That worked great until she left the police force, she still was able to use her skills, but Knight of the Cross didn't exactly fit her, nor head of a vigilante group.  Jim I think had already said, no power ups for Murphy, and her fans seem to agree with that.  Keep Murphy as she is, a sane vanilla anchor for Harry, and she is a good fighter as well.
Okay, but time marches on, from the start she if five years older than Harry, and while as a wizard, he is still considered quite young, she is in the middle of middle age, the slam bang fights that she was always so go at, seem less and less plausible.. So in Skin Game it all caught up with her, big time.  So now lets consummate the dance her and Harry have been doing for years..  So what is left?  Having her killed by a cheap shot after her doing an heroic deed.