Elaine: Spoilerific Fun

[Mira]

He's not Vanilla, he's the only person who's come into contact with Harry who's life has actually gotten consistently better because of it, there has to be something supernatural going on there.

Yeah, Uriel is running that show.  Butters life has gotten better because he is an intelligent guy who showed intellectual bravery early on when he went to a mental institution instead of lying about what he found during his medical exams in the morgue.  He has always kept an open mind about what he has witnessed.  If his life has gotten better, it's because of that and the people and beings it has put him in contact with.

Nemesis itself said sometime after getting close to Lara.  if that can be believed, remember her actions during White Night.  Harry was surprised to see Justine actually lucid and ambulatory while waiting to be introduced in the Nut Cave (the Deeps)  She glossed over it quickly, but I think it was Nemesis.

Yeah, I believe she was infected as far back as Grave Peril.  That is when her mental health seemed to be stabilizing which was attributed to the light feeding Thomas was doing on her.  Then at the end of Blood Rites she almost died to save Thomas, but as soon as she recovered she became Lara's secretary and confidant, she was also spying supposedly for Harry.  But one has to wonder, who else got the information and was she selective in the feeding of it.

[bigdangmoose]

The question I have is how much of her is actually in there or if after the feeding nothing is left and it's all HWWBS

[Arjan]

The question I have is how much of her is actually in there or if after the feeding nothing is left and it's all HWWBS

I think she is still there but her nature is changed but the same rules apply as with Lea. If she really wants it she can get back with the right help.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

That would presumes the Walker is in love with Thomas.

[bigdangmoose]

That would presumes the Walker is in love with Thomas.

Not necessarily. Thomas took almost all of her. If HWWBS stepped in shortly thereafter, enough was there to keep the protection, but he was in the driver's seat, not letting her live and come back. He steps out, will she be there enough to function.

Maybe she's always been in charge up until after CD and the failure another of his controls. Which brings up the controversy we had a few years back with if Murphy was Nemfected, why throw away the chance he had in CD

[Griffyn612]

Yeah, I believe she was infected as far back as Grave Peril.  That is when her mental health seemed to be stabilizing which was attributed to the light feeding Thomas was doing on her.  Then at the end of Blood Rites she almost died to save Thomas, but as soon as she recovered she became Lara's secretary and confidant, she was also spying supposedly for Harry.  But one has to wonder, who else got the information and was she selective in the feeding of it.

That doesn't track with what Maeve says in Cold Days on Demonreach.

   Justine made a quiet sound and went to Mac's side.
   Maeve's eyes fastened on her. "And the vampire's crumpet. Luscious little thing, aren't you? And so close to Lady Raith. You and I are going to have a long talk after this, darling. I just know you're going to start to see things my way."

It sounds like Maeve and Beside are picking their next target right then and there.  She's not talking like Justine is already infected.

[Bad Alias]

Now that Harry has implied he's going to beef up the paranet in his Castle, this would be a prime opportunity to have Elaine play an active role.  Is she good, self interested, or nemesis? 

Especially since he's been outlawed and is engaged to someone he has no interest in being married to.

I've always shipped Elaine, but I've also always thought her being one of the key players behind everything (or at least a lot of it) really fits.

I peg Elaine to be Murphy's role replacement, assuming Harry still need a default partner in crime during the series.

But why would she abandon LA? She hears about Harry being kicked out of the Council. Furious, she confronts Carlos over his betrayal of Harry and outs herself as a wizard level talent, either on purpose or accident. She has to flee to Chicago to join Harry's Grey Council. What Harry said about the Council fits with what Elaine has always said about how she views the Council as domineering.

[Pirate101]

That doesn't track with what Maeve says in Cold Days on Demonreach.
It sounds like Maeve and Beside are picking their next target right then and there.  She's not talking like Justine is already infected.

We have to re-evaluate Justine's actions ever since White Night at least. I re-read Even Hand yesterday and it totally makes sense if you assume that Nemesis made her involve Marcone in the first place. She got to check him out. Marcone was in possession of Namshiel's coin, who is probably the Nemfected Fallen. If Marcone had lost, the coin would have been available again, maybe for her to retrieve it and look for a suitable host. In case he won, as he did, a minor Fomor lord was lost, but Marcone would have been motivated to pick up the coin himself. I suppose that is what happened. At some point after Even Hand he decided that he needed a power-up very badly.

Cold Days is tricky. I always found it odd that Thomas insisted on taking her along in the first place. She would have been much safer at Castle Raith ...
At the show- down, she neither helped Maeve nor team Harry. She just observed. As usual imo. Was she there to make sure that Maeve was not doing anything stupid? As Maeve then did?

[Basil]

Cold Days is tricky. I always found it odd that Thomas insisted on taking her along in the first place. She would have been much safer at Castle Raith ...
At the show- down, she neither helped Maeve nor team Harry. She just observed. As usual imo. Was she there to make sure that Maeve was not doing anything stupid? As Maeve then did?

So, Justine's presence on the Island in Cold Days now makes a GREAT deal of sense.  She was Maeve's "insurance policy."  Maeve said something to the effect that you can't kill me because my mantle will go to some ally of mine (i.e. Nemesis).  That ally was standing right there -- Justine.  Little did Nemesis/Maeve/Justine understand that a much better vessel Molly was also right there. 

[ClintACK]

So, Justine's presence on the Island in Cold Days now makes a GREAT deal of sense.  She was Maeve's "insurance policy."  Maeve said something to the effect that you can't kill me because my mantle will go to some ally of mine (i.e. Nemesis).  That ally was standing right there -- Justine.  Little did Nemesis/Maeve/Justine understand that a much better vessel Molly was also right there.

Love it.

These little discoveries about things that were going on in the background in previous books are great fun.

[Mira]

It sounds like Maeve and Beside are picking their next target right then and there.  She's not talking like Justine is already infected.

Possible, but do we know whether or not Nemeses infestations keep in contact with one another?  If it compartmentalizes like terror cells, Maeve may not have been aware that Justine was infected.  That way, if one infestation victim is found out no others will be exposed.

So, Justine's presence on the Island in Cold Days now makes a GREAT deal of sense.  She was Maeve's "insurance policy."  Maeve said something to the effect that you can't kill me because my mantle will go to some ally of mine (i.e. Nemesis).  That ally was standing right there -- Justine.  Little did Nemesis/Maeve/Justine understand that a much better vessel Molly was also right there. 

That is a better plan, but Maeve/Nemesis underestimated Mab.  Mab had a contingency plan of her own, Molly, whom she had Lea prepare for acceptance of a mantle of some kind be it Summer or Winter.

[Pirate101]

So, Justine's presence on the Island in Cold Days now makes a GREAT deal of sense.  She was Maeve's "insurance policy."  Maeve said something to the effect that you can't kill me because my mantle will go to some ally of mine (i.e. Nemesis).  That ally was standing right there -- Justine.  Little did Nemesis/Maeve/Justine understand that a much better vessel Molly was also right there.

I like this 
Sarissa described herself as suffering from a heredical mental disease that has done bad things to her sister. Justine with no last name she'll admit to also (used to?) suffer from a strange mental condition. She really could be a changeling who would qualify for a Ladies Mantle.

[BrainFireBob]

I like this 
Sarissa described herself as suffering from a heredical mental disease that has done bad things to her sister. Justine with no last name she'll admit to also (used to?) suffer from a strange mental condition. She really could be a changeling who would qualify for a Ladies Mantle.

She said it was like a hereditary mental illness "that Mab was protecting (her) from."

Mab was delaying her Choice as long as she balanced her life between Winter and the mortal world.

It didn't need to be madness. Just a euphemism.

[spiritofair]

Why not Goodman Grey as Harry's partner?

[Avernite]

Why not Goodman Grey as Harry's partner?

He did kind of hang out doing nothing much in BG, as if to remind us he's still there.

Plus he's a much more monster-y sidekick for 'monster'-Harry.