The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
!!SPOILERS!! Battle Ground Thoughts and Recap !!SPOILERS!! READER BEWARE
Arjan:
--- Quote from: TheCuriousFan on October 02, 2020, 10:44:21 PM ---Flinging rocks at people, if flinging keys works just fine to get around the defence then rocks work even better. I was saying don't think about it too hard because in the end it's one line of backstory that hasn't aged well.
--- End quote ---
Ebenezer probably tried some complex magical trick and did not think it through. He also did not know about his daughters curse so he assumed papa raith could recover from any normal damage and just fill his tank again.
With the knowledge of the curse he could just go for the Kincaid approach as many times as needed but that simply did not occur to him and he did not have that knowledge. And he was also molded by white council training as papa Raith remarked.
He is also an older generation. We never see Ebenezer use a gun.
JTass:
--- Quote from: SintraEdrien on September 30, 2020, 04:54:21 AM ---Just to note, as soon as I saw the Huntsmen explained, I thought "Chronicles of Prydain!"
--- End quote ---
I had the same thought.
Yuillegan:
--- Quote from: TheCuriousFan on October 02, 2020, 10:44:21 PM ---Flinging rocks at people, if flinging keys works just fine to get around the defence then rocks work even better. I was saying don't think about it too hard because in the end it's one line of backstory that hasn't aged well.
--- End quote ---
I understand what's gone wrong here. You and I are talking about different things. Lord Raith was never immune to physical damage, and therefore even if an object was manipulated with magic, it is still an object of the physical world and therefore will affect him just like any other physical assault.
Eb may have not realised this. Lord Raith's defences are against purely magical, spiritual assaults. So attacking him in such a way was never going to work. Eb even discusses the issues with using intentional forces versus natural operation of the univers, in Peace Talks (when discussing why regular physical fire is better against Outsiders than magically created/controlled fire). If Eb had considered that an Outsider was protecting Raith he might have realised this and dropped a satellite on him.
But to be very clear, using already established physical objects IS NOT a way around his magical defences. Harry never hit Raith with magic. He his him with a physical object. He exploited Raith's physical weakness.
Arjan is essentially correct in that it probably never occurred to Ebenezar and he simply assumed it was a matter of the right magical assault, rather than considering Raith's physical weakness' (of which publicly were still assumed to be few).
Eb doesn't specialise in magic that get's around targets immune to magic. As far as I can see, no one does. No one succeeded in getting around Raith's or Ethniu's ability to resist/ignore magical assault. Every attack on them that was successful was physical in nature. Natural operation vs Intention. Exploitation of the weaknesses of a being isn't the same as beating the beating their magical defence. Harry probably couldn't get through Mab's magical defences, in pure magical assaults. But he could always put a bullet in her brain. And Cold Iron can't be resisted by the Fae. Physical vs Spiritual.
Dina:
Ok, fair warning. I have not read the thread yet. I want to share my feelings and after that I will be reading a lot of threads. I've seen some titles and a few first posts in every thread and I know that some of my issues with the book are addressed in those threads, so I won't be too long here, I will just try to summarize my feelings and a few points I consider important.
First. I liked the book. Definitely better than PT, and, considering the two books as one, still one falling around the middle in my preference list. Now, speaking about BG specifically:
Things I loved: many quotes, Harry's will and wish to help humans and really caring for everyone. And as always, Mouse, Michael, Butters and Sanya. Bob, I really want Bob to be back with Harry. Also, Toot, Lacuna and all the little ones. Harry's conversations with Gard.
Things I liked. All the action was interesting and fun to read. And I think it was specially good balance, with all people who should be doing important in it, doing it. Mab. Lara. The fact that Ebenezar survived. Same about the Alphas and the Knights. Harry won a reputation all by her own.
Goodman Grey, I always like to see him. And I am pleased Harry was not a complete moron and realized what was happening with Justine before arriving to Demonreach.
Things which I hate: That there is no resolution of the Thomas problem, and by that I mean, there are not epilogue about his official status. Is he still a fugitive? Will it matter the fact that he was under cohesion? What was the official reaction to the fact that he was not in his cell? And of course, why is he still on the pokeball? I understood that he needed to feed. Can he feed of a fae? Or a Black court slave? Some wounded person who was going to die anyway?
What I don't like: The book is juggling too many things and it is all over the place. Let me see
.Of course, the main thing with the Titan
.The Thomas issue
. Harry status with the WCouncil and Harry personal drama with Carlos and Eb.
- Drakul
- the Stars and Stones meaning and all that what will happen in a year with LTW talking with someone
. The reality risking to break...a plot that means nothing, as it is never mentioned again.
- Of course, the pairing, but that is just in the last episode
It is just too much. Also, things I did not like
That Murphy killed the Jotun so easily. I am pretty sure that Marcone and his people could have shared some bazookas with every "squadron" to kill all them if just a shot was enough. I've felt it was done so she needed to be a hero and then die a stupid death, but I think it could have been done with a lesser monster, so it is more believable. I do think her death was good, and she deserves a good rest but I definitely don't like that he was taken by Odin. She was a Christian, her place was in Heaven. And she should have the chance to meet her dad. Also, Many long lived people (including Mab) would remember her, so she won't be back in like ever.
That there is not one giving Harry something to heal, like a potion- I don't want to discuss how probable is that, it is just is difficult to believe that Harry human body, even with the mantle, could survive that much punishment.
That if he was so important for everyone (specially Lara), he was alone so many times.
That Justine has been infected so much. What about True Love? I don't get it. If she has been infected after Thomas and her were able to touch again, I would understand it.
And now, the things I want to comment:
1) Where is Mister at the end, and in Christmas Story. I am worried!
2) About Christmas Story, it was changed. JB basically lie to us in order to preserve the surprise, I guess. The Wizard of Chicago says now, instead of "a wizard of the WC". Also, he mislead us a little about how many goodbyes. There are only 4 or 5 people and only one with real significance for us, but I understand that they are important for Harry...and I am so happy people survived that I have no problems with some misleading. I just want to comment it, not criticize it.
3) what happened with the Spear????? It has not been mentioned in the ending, and Harry took off his coat in the boat so, perhaps Justine took it? For a moment I thought he had been mind altered to forget about the Spear, but I guess Alfred would have asked for it
4) What happened with the placard? And Mac and his place. It was not revisited in the aftermath
5) Why Ivy does not react to Harry's presence? Why he did not even wave or smile to her? Why he did not wonder about Kinkaid? (We know, but I don't think Harry does)
6) Where is Kinkaid, I want him back, specially with Drakul around
7) Did I misread or Listen is a starborn too? Why nobody seem to care about that.
8) The ending in general is too rushed but I think we needed a line or two about Harry telling the Knights about Marcone the Denarian (or at least I hope he told them)
9) What with Mab ordering him to kill Molly? I think that breaks her word but I've seen a thread about this so I will post more there
10) About what LTW told him, if he was being bred for something, and he is supposed to do something, why the WC allowed him to be in so much danger so many times? Shouldn't them protect him? (the way Winter did, at least)
11) Where is Chandler? I don't think he is dead
12) The marriage is not so bad idea. He is still protected by Murphy's love, so she won't feed on him. The White Council already fired him so it does not matter if they see him literally laying with monsters. And being with the White Court will act as a deterrent to his enemies and protect Maggie. Between the two WC and his own reputation, I don't see many foes daring to go for Maggie.
Sorry it was so long, now to read!
Dina:
Sorry about the double post, but I wanted to comment a few things of the OP
--- Quote from: Yuillegan on September 30, 2020, 12:47:16 AM ---
a) Listen is one (and he disappears but isn't dead after all is said and done), it explains his importance to the Empress although she does seem more nonchalant than the others about Starborn. Drakul (more on him later) is also one. And we learn from Mavra that he seems to want to sacrifice Starborn to or for the "Stars and the Stones". Harry also finally pays attention and actually asks more questions about the big stuff.
--- End quote ---
This reminded me of something, the strange thing about how to kill King Cob. "when the deepest ocean meets the sun". I have not idea what this means but I was thinking, perhaps thanks to the so far criminally underused Maggie Le Fay stone, Harry could find a way and open a portal between the deepest ocean and a sunny place. Or, of course, they can put him in the middle of a crash between two boats called "the deepest ocean" and "the sun".
--- Quote from: Yuillegan on September 30, 2020, 12:47:16 AM ---b) As it seems likely there are multiple Starborn running around there are a number of possible candidates:
Elaine (almost certain now considering Justin's involvement...more so if she were Kumori), Marcone (seems like another reveal), Nicodemus (would explain a lot of his game), Rashid (for obvious reasons). Perhaps others.
--- End quote ---
Marcone is too old
--- Quote from: Yuillegan on September 30, 2020, 12:47:16 AM ---
5. The Eye. Was mostly very impressive although hardly a nuke. More like the energy of a nuke focussed. Arguably far more dangerous but it would have been nice to see an OMG moment. Everyone likes a big boom. Also, Harry lying about who ended up with it and using it to manipulate Marcone was stupid on Harry's part. He won the round but he will pay for it. If he had been prepared to try and buy the castle off Marcone he might have dodged the eventual repercussions. But it can kill Immortals apparently. Mab was concerned it could finish her. So now we have two ways Immortals can kill: conjunctions and super-magical power. Which makes a certain amount of sense.
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I agree about that being stupid. After Marcone let him go with the Eye things had been more or less civil between them. I think Harry could have negotiated in private or something liek that. There had to be another way that was not so bad for Marcone ego and won't make him so angry. I prefer when they don't truly hate each other.
On a side note, in the conversation when they were changing clothes, Harry told him that he would stop him one day and Marcone smiled. I am thinking that in a deep level, Marcone feels that if he became fully Denarian, fully monster, is good to have someone with Harry to stop him. Just as Harry feels good that Butters is near him to stab him if he became full monster.
--- Quote from: Yuillegan on September 30, 2020, 12:47:16 AM ---6. Reality breaking. Lifted pretty much from Warhammer I think. More magic equals less reality. Too much equals catastrophic reality failure. Also, Ferrovax went from closing the Earth to holding reality together from the Nevernever. It seems like Jim forgot what he was doing and put him in a new position. It still gels and was cool but the Archive ended up with the Svartalves. I suspect in an older copy Ferrovax was with them but later Jim had to change things and ended up with Ivy. But Bob mentioned that if there was too much strain Reality might collapse.
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I thought this was taken from the "World of Darkness". Too much magic produces a lot of paradox, reality can't handle it. Also, I did not like all the part about breaking reality, it seem like a "OH NO, WE ARE DOOMED!!!" moment that then...it's forgotten. And yes, only explains why Ferrovax is not in the fight (I suspect he is too powerful)
--- Quote from: Yuillegan on September 30, 2020, 12:47:16 AM ---11. Drakul.
11Librarians.
13 Seems like the Placard was a lot of build-up for very little bang
--- End quote ---
I wonder if the classic "you kill the original vampire, all die" is true in the Butcherverse. If Harry kills Drakul he will destroy a second vampire race.
I did not like the Librarians introduction at all. Specially because we don't need more factions.
Agree about the placard, specially because it is not mentioned in the aftermath
Lastly, about Mab wanting to kill Molly and Justine I will post in specific threads that other people created.
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