We Now Know What/Who Mac Is

[Mira]

Because Marcone isn't an idiot. Why complicate something that's going to be complicated and delicate anyway?

Not if he didn't think it would interfere with the talks.  Harry wasn't going to take part in them, and neither was Murphy, however it would give him leverage down the road.   I am not saying he was behind it, but it isn't impossible either..

[Bad Alias]

I agree it's not impossible. I'm saying Marcone is too smart to do it during the talks because he's smart enough to know you don't add factors to a delicate situation. It's stupid. He can't know it won't interfere with the talks. It would be a departure from his established character.

[Mira]

I agree it's not impossible. I'm saying Marcone is too smart to do it during the talks because he's smart enough to know you don't add factors to a delicate situation. It's stupid. He can't know it won't interfere with the talks. It would be a departure from his established character.

Or is it?  Harry and Murphy agree that Rudy is in Marcone's pay.   Depending on how the talks went, Marcone may have figured that having a little information to blackmail with in his back pocket wouldn't hurt if he felt he didn't get all he wanted from the talks.

[ElJefe81]

I think the chances of Marcone being behind this are non-existent.  It's simply not his style.  Gathering this type of intelligence for later leverage would be his style, but tipping off Harry and Murphy ahead of time by letting them know he's on to them?  Sloppy.  Further, he's demonstrated countless times that he would not permit this type of sloppiness from his underlings. 

[Conspiracy Theorist]

And at the same time keep Rudy around in case you need a handy fall guy(oh that would make a good title for the wrestling book  “Fall Guys”, very noir and pun laden) on the off chance you need to show an officer on the take etc without exposing you own people. Rudy has too big a house, too nice a car, too expensive a suit for his salary, those on the take from Marcone are probably instructed on how to hide their largesse. Marcone’s guys own a reasonable house in a so so neighbourhood, drive a 2 year old car and but a good but off the peg suit, and have a very big bank account squirrelled away for their retirement.

[Yuillegan]

Rudolph is in someone's pocket, sure. But Marcone is hardly the only person with money and influence, and he isn't going to benefit the most (if much at all) from the destruction of the Peace Talks he helped arrange and host.

The most obvious player is the White Court. They have much to gain from Harry being distracted and Lara has influence that rivals if not outstrips Marcone in the mortal world, and much more on the side of the establishment. See Jury Duty and that helps show some of it.

[bigdangmoose]

It might be, but another way of looking at it might be one of setting up the psyche to see how far one can fall before doing something dangerous and completely out of range and abilities. She has fallen to a point so low from where she was in the beginning and Harry just pushed her down even further by telling her to stay put. Yes it's to defend the people of Chicago while Harry goes to defend the city of Chicago, but it's not where she thinks she should be.

Jim has either set her up to find her new click and return in the future with new friends to help in the BAT, or he is setting her up to go in a blaze of glory and gore. Which would be perfect for MM, a story about how much his decisions changed the world, for good and bad.

And no, no power ups for Murphy. Last I heard, Jim said no power ups for her unless it's a bigger gun. So no return as an avenging angel or a new hire for Monoc security. It would cheapen her character.

I have to amend my comment about Murphy becoming a part of Monoc securities. She actually could and probably will, but not the way fans think and what some of us think was foreshadowed.

I remember a time when people went crazy with the idea of her becoming a Valkyrie. Jim then said no powerups for her. If she needs a powerup, she gets a bigger gun.

Yeah, just think about it. She's been training with the warriors up until she got hurt, she's been referred to as a warrior before but Lara's new security consultant called her one but it felt like there was some weight behind it, and the Valkyrie knows when she's slated to die.

Each thing individually means nothing, but putting them together...

I wonder if Murphy dies earlier in the book, Harry doesn't know about it, suddenly Murphy is back with her motorcycle and rocket launcher and we are left to wonder how. All the while she took the offer to be one of the Viking warriors. Thus not getting a powerup, but putting her in a statis to help with an army come the BAT, all while pushing her away from Harry like Jim has been doing to all of Harry's allies.

It would work with what we saw in the trailer with Murphy and would kinda make sense to why Jim gave Harry his WCourt protection back so quickly after they started dating.

[Mira]

I have to amend my comment about Murphy becoming a part of Monoc securities. She actually could and probably will, but not the way fans think and what some of us think was foreshadowed.

I remember a time when people went crazy with the idea of her becoming a Valkyrie. Jim then said no powerups for her. If she needs a powerup, she gets a bigger gun.

Yeah, just think about it. She's been training with the warriors up until she got hurt, she's been referred to as a warrior before but Lara's new security consultant called her one but it felt like there was some weight behind it, and the Valkyrie knows when she's slated to die.

Each thing individually means nothing, but putting them together...

I wonder if Murphy dies earlier in the book, Harry doesn't know about it, suddenly Murphy is back with her motorcycle and rocket launcher and we are left to wonder how. All the while she took the offer to be one of the Viking warriors. Thus not getting a powerup, but putting her in a statis to help with an army come the BAT, all while pushing her away from Harry like Jim has been doing to all of Harry's allies.

It would work with what we saw in the trailer with Murphy and would kinda make sense to why Jim gave Harry his WCourt protection back so quickly after they started dating.

Yes, that would be about the only way the trailer works, but at the same time would the turn around be that fast?  Also most of the Valkyrie will be pretty busy on the battlefield. Also becoming a Valkyrie would be a power up for her.  What does the true love protection have to do with any of this?  It didn't save Susan from becoming a half-vamp, from turning, or from getting her throat cut by her true love.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Rudolph is in someone's pocket, sure. But Marcone is hardly the only person with money and influence, and he isn't going to benefit the most (if much at all) from the destruction of the Peace Talks he helped arrange and host.

Here’s a thought what if Rudolph is in everyone’s pocket except Marcone’s ? He could have been taking money from the White Court, the White Council, the  swartalves etc he strikes me as someone who would do that, and Battle Ground may be where they all compare notes and get very angry at Rudolph when they all realise he has been selling information about them all to each other.

[bigdangmoose]

Yes, that would be about the only way the trailer works, but at the same time would the turn around be that fast?  Also most of the Valkyrie will be pretty busy on the battlefield. Also becoming a Valkyrie would be a power up for her.  What does the true love protection have to do with any of this?  It didn't save Susan from becoming a half-vamp, from turning, or from getting her throat cut by her true love.

Not a Valkyrie, just one of the Warriors. She already turned down a Valkyrie job. And my thought process was that if she died, she was reborn in healed ready to fight in this all out battle.

I've read a couple other series where it was based on Vikings and the character left their body after they died and was reborn in a new better body.

As for the true love thing, that was me just spouting. I just felt it awfully fast for Jim to point that out, not for it to have happened. Kinda felt like Jim is pointing things like that out because something is going to happen between them and Jim wants to let the fans know where they stand. That's all. Sorry for confusing you.

[Mira]

As for the true love thing, that was me just spouting. I just felt it awfully fast for Jim to point that out, not for it to have happened. Kinda felt like Jim is pointing things like that out because something is going to happen between them and Jim wants to let the fans know where they stand. That's all. Sorry for confusing you.

I don't think did that fast because we've know at least how Murphy feels since Nic beat the crap out of her in Skin Game. 

Not a Valkyrie, just one of the Warriors. She already turned down a Valkyrie job. And my thought process was that if she died, she was reborn in healed ready to fight in this all out battle.

I've read a couple other series where it was based on Vikings and the character left their body after they died and was reborn in a new better body.

I don't know if it is that instant though.  Now the trailer could be misleading.

[Bad Alias]

Or is it?  Harry and Murphy agree that Rudy is in Marcone's pay.   Depending on how the talks went, Marcone may have figured that having a little information to blackmail with in his back pocket wouldn't hurt if he felt he didn't get all he wanted from the talks.

It only makes sense if Marcone has no idea who he's dealing with. He knows Harry doesn't respond well to threats.

[bigdangmoose]

I don't think did that fast because we've know at least how Murphy feels since Nic beat the crap out of her in Skin Game. 

I don't know if it is that instant though.  Now the trailer could be misleading.

No, no, no, sorry. That's the problem with text only communication. Say something one way, thinking it's clear and it's not.

I'm not saying that obtained it fast. After everything they went through the past couple books, it's understandable. No, what I was saying is that Jim made a point of showing it off. Like something is going to happen. He doesn't show things off to just show off. Well, technically he does, but he uses it for a reason. And he usually doesn't fan service. And if he doesn't use the show off, then this will be a fan service.

[Mira]

No, no, no, sorry. That's the problem with text only communication. Say something one way, thinking it's clear and it's not.

I'm not saying that obtained it fast. After everything they went through the past couple books, it's understandable. No, what I was saying is that Jim made a point of showing it off. Like something is going to happen. He doesn't show things off to just show off. Well, technically he does, but he uses it for a reason. And he usually doesn't fan service. And if he doesn't use the show off, then this will be a fan service.

You could be right, but Vadderung and his army are helping in the defense of the city.  We've known that both Marcone and Lara are chummy with the Valkyrie, so that might not mean anything.  Very heavy is the foreshadowing that Murphy is going to bite the dust in this one.  Bringing her back as a mini-berserker in Vadderung's army might cheapen the character and the sacrifice,

[bigdangmoose]

You could be right, but Vadderung and his army are helping in the defense of the city.  We've known that both Marcone and Lara are chummy with the Valkyrie, so that might not mean anything.  Very heavy is the foreshadowing that Murphy is going to bite the dust in this one.  Bringing her back as a mini-berserker in Vadderung's army might cheapen the character and the sacrifice,

She doesn't have to be a berserker, she can be just as she is. Harry or Eb told the other Wardens on the first day of the PT that some of the Vikings were berserker's, didn't say all.

But I do agree that her coming back anymore than what she was healthy would cheapen the character. I could see it done in a way because of how far she has fallen, but I has to be done right.