The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
The Fomor already unleashed ... Battle Ground Chapters 1 & 2
Yuillegan:
--- Quote ---I've seen that, but I'm not convinced it necessarily means that... at least not in the sense I'm talking about.
Some aspects of them / their power ... yes, would go back to the beginning of the universe, in some form. But not the individual beings (at least all of them).
The power of Mab is "older than time" per Harry's Sight vision in SK, but Mab herself is younger than Nicodemus.
Given what Lea says about memories being stored in the universe in GS, I think the current generation of gods having those memories could be more like how Harry & Molly just know what Winter Law is as soon as they think about it... it could go with the 'Mantle' to some degree.
As Mother Summer says, the power can't be created or destroyed - but it can change form.
--- End quote ---
Perhaps not all of them. But not all of them are like Mab either. Not all the gods are mantles. Maybe not even most. But it's certainly possible that only the oldest/most original beings are from that moment. The real question is whether newer emanations/offshoots know what their originators know. Does Vadderung remember everything his original form did?
I agree though, the Power keeps changing in order to suit the status quo. Maybe it chooses to change. Maybe it is forced to.
--- Quote ---Well, sure, relativity and all.. even without magic, in real physics, time can be tricky. But that rarely makes any actual difference unless you are dealing with really high speeds or extreme gravity wells.
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True enough, at least based on our current understanding.
--- Quote ---Yeah, the statue of Hecate in SG confirms some kind of connection, but we don't know exactly what.
Personally I think the Queens incorporated parts of various other Mantles, including Hecate, the Greek Fates, and the Norse Norns.
--- End quote ---
I agree.
--- Quote ---But I think mantles can also be divided or consolidated (consumed?)
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Isn't this all that ever happens to power anyway? But yeah, I think Vadderung essentially hints at this.
The_Sibelis:
I'm of the opinion, you could take the middle fate, kill her on the stone table, and basically make her into the two courts and that what happened to the missing sister. Course there's a trifecta motif going on there too, because we have Lachesis and Nemesis, or should I say Nortia, the Etruscan version of fate. Think about Mab even having an aspect of judgement, that's basically Nemesis. And would explain why Nemesis is the fae adversary and directly effects fae so much. She's a ghost upon the memory of the universe, they are her reflections here in reality because they are her. Would also explain why outsiders of a certain caliber are described in the necromantic 'deep' feeling. And of course the scary thing is the recent Woj soul doesn't change, and seeks it's original form... If they cannibalized them into the courts, the soul is seeking it's original form. Even outside of this specific theory, if you prescribe to the grand unification theory at all consider, the soul seeks it's original form...
vultur:
--- Quote from: The_Sibelis on September 07, 2020, 02:03:45 PM ---I'm of the opinion, you could take the middle fate, kill her on the stone table, and basically make her into the two courts and that what happened to the missing sister.
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I don't think anyone is missing. Both Mothers share the names/mantles of Atropos and Skuld, the Queens are Lachesis (and presumably Verdandi/Verthandi), and the Ladies are Clotho (and presumably Urdr).
--- Quote --- And of course the scary thing is the recent Woj soul doesn't change, and seeks it's original form... If they cannibalized them into the courts, the soul is seeking it's original form. Even outside of this specific theory, if you prescribe to the grand unification theory at all consider, the soul seeks it's original form...
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I think that WoJ was about mortal souls. The Fae and such seem to be based on spirit rather than soul.
The_Sibelis:
--- Quote from: vultur on September 08, 2020, 03:32:31 AM ---I don't think anyone is missing. Both Mothers share the names/mantles of Atropos and Skuld, the Queens are Lachesis (and presumably Verdandi/Verthandi), and the Ladies are Clotho (and presumably Urdr).
I think that WoJ was about mortal souls. The Fae and such seem to be based on spirit rather than soul.
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MS is clotho, MW is skuld... Where is Lachesis? The queens? Yea, that's exactly my point. Where there should be a third just as powerful being we have the courts split in two
Lmao, they have spirit, indeed. They have spirit... Lmao. Man, the reference section should be mandatory reading because I am not going to personally relay an entire couple of threads on the nature of the fae and their soul. Suffice it to say the argument has been well laid, and not by me.
vultur:
--- Quote from: The_Sibelis on September 08, 2020, 04:13:20 AM ---MS is clotho, MW is skuld...
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No, *both* Mothers are Skuld and Atropos.
This question was asked ages ago ("if MW is Atropos and MS is Clotho, where's the third Fate") and Jim's response was that the model is off by 90 degrees.
So both Mothers = Atropos, both Queens = Lachesis, both Ladies = Clotho.
--- Quote ---Suffice it to say the argument has been well laid, and not by me.
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Yeah there have been lots of arguments about this stuff before.
But I think that WoJ about White Court feeding confirms that the Soul/Spirit distinction is both real and makes a huge difference (I think we knew that from GS, but that WoJ gives more parameters).
White Court feeding may affect the soul to some degree, but can't destroy it. When the White Court feeding kills someone, that's by exhaustion of life force, not destruction of soul... their afterlife isn't removed.
IMO this probably also means that when a Changeling Chooses Fae (or when Susan turns Rampire in Changes, etc.) the soul goes on to the afterlife and only spirit is left in the new being.
Now that doesn't mean no Fae have souls - Molly does. Other Mantle-bearing Fae might too, depending on whether they were Fae (or Changelings who Chose Fae) before they took up the Mantle.
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