The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers

Intention vs natural operation

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vultur:

--- Quote from: Yuillegan on July 21, 2020, 07:28:30 AM ---I suspect it is more than just a matter of definitions. There seems to be a distinct "dark" feel to every single Outsider and Old One encountered so far.

TWG and his servants have a distinct "light" feel. Why would this one (TWG) be so different?

So I think you're correct Vultur in the sense he isn't part of the ordered of Created things. Even in general christian teachings God doesn't create himself as he is "eternal" as in always having existed. And I agree that Inside/Outside are meaningless unless *something* exists. Uriel even hints about this when he talks about the essential distinction between good and evil.
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Yeah that's what I was getting at.

Do we actually know that the Outsiders existed before Reality ("Inside")? If "before" even has meaning here... Time is probably a feature of "Inside" Reality.

Is there a WOJ or something that would rule out the Outsiders being a "shadow cast by Reality", coming into existence in the moment of Reality being created as a side-effect of that?

huangjimmy108:

--- Quote from: Yuillegan on July 20, 2020, 01:40:13 AM ---Butcher slips in a hint about magic and will just as the Cornerhounds appear.

Ebeneezer says to Harry that fire is best for defeating them, but natural fire works just fine. Harry asks what difference is it where the fire comes from, and Eb says he hasn't got time to give him a lecture in intention versus the natural operation of the universe. He says that it mostly has to do with the fact that if a Wizard uses magic the Outsider can slip most of the punch. This makes sense when we consider how He Who Walks Behind was defeated, and the fact the Demonreach contains a banefire to defeat the Immortals.

My WAG is that while mortal will is strong, because you are contending against such powerful beings they often are hiding behind their avatar and therefore the attack doesn't actually attack the being itself. It may also be to do with being so alien it is hard for the human mind to comprehend and engage with them. I suspect that when natural elements are used i.e. the normal energy and matter of the created universe, you are actually utilising the power and intent of TWG. After all, if TWG is the Creator of the All then it stands to reason that everything that exists in the "natural" universe is created with it's intent. Which is obviously so much stronger than what mere mortals can do (constrained as they are).

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In Xianxia terms, this is the difference between using magic normally and understanding the laws. I wander if wizards could grow in skill to the point that they can utilize the laws of the universe as their weapons. Can Harry for example, concentrate natural sunlight through magic and using the high intensity and heat of the sun, thereby nullifying those creatures who are immune to magic? Or even better, can Harry simulate a mini nuclear explosion with magic? Of course Harry does knot know anything about nuclear physics, but can a wizard who understand physics do such a thing?

To a certain extent, EB himself has done this. Rather than conjuring a massive forzare spell and smash Ortega with it, EB dragged down a satelite from orbit. No anti-magic defenses could nullify that. Rather than burning the enemy with a fuego spell, better to disturb a nearby volcano and direct the wrath of nature at them.

TheCuriousFan:

--- Quote from: vultur on July 21, 2020, 10:04:34 PM ---I think the difference is a matter of degree, not yes/no. Harry's Fuego spell is using *some* magic to control the fire after it is magically conjured, or it would spread more "randomly" rather than shooting toward his enemy; Luccio's narrow beam is just more narrowly controlled.

If he just conjured fire with no control afterwards, I think it would look more like an explosion / bonfire than a blowtorch/flamethrower jet of flame.

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That's pretty explicit, the beam keeps shrinking as the books go on (and expanding whenever he loses his blasting rod for the nth time) and the Ghost Story flashback showed that his first fuego was just basically him hosing fire in HWWB's direction.

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