Author Topic: Peace talks spoilers: Thomas... Metamorphosis???  (Read 7150 times)

Offline pcpoet

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 831
  • life is a dream
    • View Profile
Re: Peace talks spoilers: Thomas... Metamorphosis???
« Reply #15 on: July 18, 2020, 12:37:25 AM »
I think butters is going to use his sword to slay Thomas's demon. butters sword cant harm a mortal because its blade is non corporeal.  I think its possible that the White court is going to have sevral of there demons slain by butters leaving the host a vanilla mortal
« Last Edit: July 18, 2020, 03:29:51 AM by pcpoet »
I am who I am that's all that I am from my head to my toe that's all that I am.

Offline Mira

  • Needs A Life
  • ***
  • Posts: 24056
    • View Profile
Re: Peace talks spoilers: Thomas... Metamorphosis???
« Reply #16 on: July 18, 2020, 05:17:07 AM »
I think butters is going to use his sword to slay Thomas's demon. butters sword cant harm a mortal because its blade is non corporeal.  I think its possible that the White court is going to have sevral of there demons slain by butters leaving the host a vanilla mortal

That is a real good guess, most likely that is why we had that little demo, the Sword cannot hurt human flesh, it kills monsters.

Offline Conspiracy Theorist

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 2981
    • View Profile
Re: Peace talks spoilers: Thomas... Metamorphosis???
« Reply #17 on: July 18, 2020, 07:06:35 AM »
I would point out the Molly Summoning passage in PT, Jim sets up exactly that scenario in Molly trying to leave a circle the mortal part of her could, but because she is so riddled through with the Mantle, what passed through the circle would not be Molly as she was.

I think this scene was included as a companion to that of the testing of the swords new capabilities, the sword might successfully kill the Hunger BUT the mortal left is not recognisably Thomas.

I think perhaps the way forward is to change the nature of the Hunger, not to kill it, we do not know enough of the White Courts origins whether that is possible. Get the hunger to feed on love rather than life. The Sword of Faith is not the only weapon in Harry’s Arsenal. It is interesting if you look at the Wikipedia article on Cupid (aka Eros or AMOR) the classical depiction does match Thomas’s appearance as we see him in Grave Peril for the first time, and Christian depictions of Cupid as a demon of fornication match the White Court to a T.

If Whamps are the corrupted scion of Cupid, the one thing which might be able to undo the corruption is the grail, a purifier, which means Harry would have to actively seek out Nicky to cure Thomas. That would be fun, and where the sword of faith may come into play in a cure.

If you can cure Thomas, or convert him, it is a potential end of the White Court Vampires, and introduce Thomas to the concept of Monogamy, which he probably thinks is some kind of wood.

Offline Mira

  • Needs A Life
  • ***
  • Posts: 24056
    • View Profile
Re: Peace talks spoilers: Thomas... Metamorphosis???
« Reply #18 on: July 18, 2020, 12:26:19 PM »
Quote
I would point out the Molly Summoning passage in PT, Jim sets up exactly that scenario in Molly trying to leave a circle the mortal part of her could, but because she is so riddled through with the Mantle, what passed through the circle would not be Molly as she was.

I found that scene very sad, I think it was a reminder that like Molly, Mab was human once long ago.

Offline Arjan

  • Seriously?
  • ***
  • Posts: 13235
    • View Profile
Re: Peace talks spoilers: Thomas... Metamorphosis???
« Reply #19 on: July 18, 2020, 12:54:14 PM »
I found that scene very sad, I think it was a reminder that like Molly, Mab was human once long ago.
That creates a distance between them sure but that does not mean being the lady is a bad thing.
WG+++: The White God is Mister.
SH[Elaine+++]

Offline Mira

  • Needs A Life
  • ***
  • Posts: 24056
    • View Profile
Re: Peace talks spoilers: Thomas... Metamorphosis???
« Reply #20 on: July 18, 2020, 02:19:17 PM »
That creates a distance between them sure but that does not mean being the lady is a bad thing.

  I didn't say it was, but consider and there are hints from what the Titian said to Mab, she may have started out a lot like Molly.   She may have been sweet, kind, and very human in the beginning, much like Molly.  There are also hints of it after Maeve died that she revealed to Harry unintentionally of her very human motherly pain.  To which Kringle warned Harry never to expose her weakness to others or expose them at his own peril.  The Mab of today wasn't shaped in a day, it took over a thousand years.     

Offline Arjan

  • Seriously?
  • ***
  • Posts: 13235
    • View Profile
Re: Peace talks spoilers: Thomas... Metamorphosis???
« Reply #21 on: July 18, 2020, 03:19:08 PM »
She hides her weaknesses so we do not really know how big they are.
WG+++: The White God is Mister.
SH[Elaine+++]

Offline Mira

  • Needs A Life
  • ***
  • Posts: 24056
    • View Profile
Re: Peace talks spoilers: Thomas... Metamorphosis???
« Reply #22 on: July 18, 2020, 04:53:16 PM »
She hides her weaknesses so we do not really know how big they are.

The big one being she was a caring human once.

Offline Dina

  • Has Collapsed Into a Singularity of Posts (a.k.a, "The Dina")
  • ***
  • Posts: 105333
    • View Profile
Re: Peace talks spoilers: Thomas... Metamorphosis???
« Reply #23 on: July 22, 2020, 05:47:50 AM »
I think butters is going to use his sword to slay Thomas's demon. butters sword cant harm a mortal because its blade is non corporeal.  I think its possible that the White court is going to have sevral of there demons slain by butters leaving the host a vanilla mortal
Yes! I've finished the book just a little ago and posted that same theory in other thread (I swear, I had not read this thread). I am still not sure that will happen (it would be too easy if Butters could just slay any whampire. So I thought two things: perhaps it will work with Thomas because he is weak. Or, it won't work on Thomas but it will work in his child. So Justine and the baby will be safe, Thomas will be grateful to Butters, perhaps even consider becoming a Knight of the sword)

Missing you, Md 

There are many horrible sights in the multiverse. Somehow, though, to a soul attuned to the subtle rhythms of a library, there are few worse sights than a hole where a book ought to be. Someone has stolen a book (Terry Pratchett)

Offline pcpoet

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 831
  • life is a dream
    • View Profile
Re: Peace talks spoilers: Thomas... Metamorphosis???
« Reply #24 on: July 22, 2020, 06:41:03 AM »
here is another thought about butters and the sword.  sevral individuals have become possessed by the outsiders what if the sword could be used to remove those influences.
I am who I am that's all that I am from my head to my toe that's all that I am.

Offline huangjimmy108

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 3073
    • View Profile
Re: Peace talks spoilers: Thomas... Metamorphosis???
« Reply #25 on: July 22, 2020, 06:50:05 AM »
here is another thought about butters and the sword.  sevral individuals have become possessed by the outsiders what if the sword could be used to remove those influences.

I am more hopeful about Harry's starborn talent to achieve such a thing rather than the holy sword. Though Harry need to enter the mind of an infected person or being to do so which probably breaks the 4th law if it is done to fellow humans.
But they were doughnuts of darkness. Evil, damned doughnuts, tainted by the spawn of darkness . . .
    . . . which could obviously be redeemed only by passing through the fiery, cleansing inferno of a wizardly digestive tract.

Offline Arjan

  • Seriously?
  • ***
  • Posts: 13235
    • View Profile
Re: Peace talks spoilers: Thomas... Metamorphosis???
« Reply #26 on: July 22, 2020, 07:17:44 AM »
By now Thomas and his demon are so intertwined that I think just slaying it without damaging Thomas is impossible.
WG+++: The White God is Mister.
SH[Elaine+++]

Offline Conspiracy Theorist

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 2981
    • View Profile
Re: Peace talks spoilers: Thomas... Metamorphosis???
« Reply #27 on: July 22, 2020, 11:48:29 AM »
I agree as regards them being so intertwined, they may try to use the sword of faith and I suspect the Shroud on Thomas, but what about the sword of love? Love has a particular effect on the Hunger burning the vampire, and Harry has divined (sorry about the pun) more of the swords true nature from the Sword of Faith than anyone was able to do previously. It doesn’t need to be the Sword of Faith, it is the knowledge obtained by it’s metamorphosis which is probably the key.

I would point out that when the sword became the Faithsabre, Butters was holding the hilt with the nail and wearing the Duster, which had the Athame (weapon) and Shroud (resurrection) in it pockets which probably helped the transformation. His faith shaped the transformation and the other two objects powered it. Trying to work something similar on Thomas to transform his hunger would likely require the Shroud, plus the sword of love plus the Grail (purification). Unfortunately, Nick has the grail. Why give Harry the solution without him having to work for it?

The Knights of the Cross always give the monsters the opportunity to repent and change, its part of the nature of the swords.

Offline Bad Alias

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 2208
    • View Profile
Re: Peace talks spoilers: Thomas... Metamorphosis???
« Reply #28 on: July 22, 2020, 04:15:24 PM »
I forgot Harry had the Shroud too.

Offline Conspiracy Theorist

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 2981
    • View Profile
Re: Peace talks spoilers: Thomas... Metamorphosis???
« Reply #29 on: July 22, 2020, 06:12:06 PM »
He has the complete set except the Grail, that must make the geek collector in him itch. However having the Athame, the Shroud, the Crown of Thorns and the Placard isn’t so great, as they have been taken out of their original packaging.

I think we are going to have purpose of one of each of these super weapons shown to us per the next few books, Athame now, Placard Battle Ground etc, but they can be used in different combinations.