Author Topic: Ebenezar and Harry (peace talks spoilers)  (Read 6972 times)

Offline tacorrific

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Re: Ebenezar and Harry (peace talks spoilers)
« Reply #30 on: July 19, 2020, 02:54:09 AM »
We also don't know much about the war that has been going on between the WC and the Fomor.  I think there was a WOJ that the fomor were pressing the WC in Europe.  Eb would have been at the forefront of a lot of those battles.  He may be burnt out from all the fighting the WC has been doing since Harry took out the Reds.  Harry mentions that Eb looks old and tired.  Some of his temper may be from overwork, especially if he had to keep using the blackstaff.

Or another maybe Eb recently found out that his old friend Simon is now running around calling himself Cowl and trying to destabilize the world.  Eb does seem to be fixated on betrayal in this book.

Offline Smaug with OCD

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Re: Ebenezar and Harry (peace talks spoilers)
« Reply #31 on: July 19, 2020, 05:19:54 AM »
OK, but what does it suggest to you if it isn't a lazy use of deux ex machina by the author?  Ebenezer's age leading to an onset of dementia could be a natural explanation for his behavior.  Anger issues and sometimes extreme anger can be a part of this illness.  I've personally seen this kind of thing in action and it's a sad and depressing thing to witness.  Perhaps some of the people on this forum have had a similar experience.  More importantly, it fits with the theme of the older members of the Senior Council hanging on because they know a storm is coming and they believe they are the only ones qualified to deal with it, when in fact they may no longer be up for the job.

However, there is another explanation which also fits with a major plot element in the larger story.  Alarm bells should go off when we see a character who is acting against their nature.  It's one of the signs that they are no longer themselves and have been nemfected.

If either of these possibilities are correct then Ebenzer McCoy is no longer fit to wield the Blackstaff.  It's also a clue that Eb is nearing the end of his journey and someone else will have to carry the Blackstaff.  You know, it might not be something that the White Council bestows upon Harry as much it's something Harry picks up when Eb falls in battle.  At that point the Council would have a choice.  They could let the Winter Knight; who is no longer a member of the White Council, use the blackstaff as he sees fit or as Mab sees fit, or return him to his position on the Council, allow him to leave the Wardens; because Harry never wanted to be one in the first place, and become the new Blackstaff of the White Council.  This would also prevent Harry from returning the staff to its original owner.   

To piggyback off this, we can also draw similarities between the last fight with Eb, and Harry's fight with Cat Sith from Cold Days. In Cold Days, when Cat Sith is himself he isn't seen. He takes down the enemy and drags them off to die horribly and silently. When he's been Nemfected, he's a drama queen.He puts up a post-it saying "look behind you" so he can make a dramatic entrance. We see similar from Eb in Peace Talks. Instead of the "KABOOM YOU'RE DEAD!" style of Blackstaffery, we see him confront Dresden from atop a floating rock. Granted, confronting Harry instead of killing him is something I could understand, given the levels of protectiveness we've seen from him. But... a floating rock? Really? Maybe it was faster than running? I don't know. But, why not eliminate the horrible monster vampires before confronting Harry and asking for answers? That seems more his style from what we've seen. And, speaking from a meta perspective, it would have driven a wedge between the two of them harder than anything that will come out of what we were given.What was in the book comes off - to me, at least - as the same vein of drama queen-hood we see from Cat Sith.

 But than, I'm a paranoid lunatic who's been wondering when Murphy would turn on Harry ever since that dream in Skin Game. I could be seeing connections where there aren't any.
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Offline Conspiracy Theorist

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Re: Ebenezar and Harry (peace talks spoilers)
« Reply #32 on: July 19, 2020, 09:28:20 AM »
Eb was always short tempered, it helped power his magic. Eb was training Maggie Snr as his replacement as Blackstaff, she ran away and retirement from that role had to be delayed, he was then affected by Peabody whose influence was to the nudge Senior Council to be more like themselves, the Merlin more cautious,  Eb even more shorter tempered, and subject to his prejudices,  subject to the Blackstaff’s influence and older, suffering from the frailties of old age including Dementia. It all accumulates.

Then there is the Hubris. He has pretty much won every battle at this point otherwise he would be dead, he knows best, his continued existence is proof of it and he can break the Laws of Magic with impunity. Harry beating him is as bad a shock as finding out Thomas is his grandson.

Offline Fox

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Re: Ebenezar and Harry (peace talks spoilers)
« Reply #33 on: July 19, 2020, 12:47:24 PM »
To piggyback off this, we can also draw similarities between the last fight with Eb, and Harry's fight with Cat Sith from Cold Days. In Cold Days, when Cat Sith is himself he isn't seen. He takes down the enemy and drags them off to die horribly and silently. When he's been Nemfected, he's a drama queen.He puts up a post-it saying "look behind you" so he can make a dramatic entrance. We see similar from Eb in Peace Talks. Instead of the "KABOOM YOU'RE DEAD!" style of Blackstaffery, we see him confront Dresden from atop a floating rock. Granted, confronting Harry instead of killing him is something I could understand, given the levels of protectiveness we've seen from him. But... a floating rock? Really? Maybe it was faster than running? I don't know. But, why not eliminate the horrible monster vampires before confronting Harry and asking for answers? That seems more his style from what we've seen. And, speaking from a meta perspective, it would have driven a wedge between the two of them harder than anything that will come out of what we were given.What was in the book comes off - to me, at least - as the same vein of drama queen-hood we see from Cat Sith.

 But than, I'm a paranoid lunatic who's been wondering when Murphy would turn on Harry ever since that dream in Skin Game. I could be seeing connections where there aren't any.

I think the discrepancy here is as simple as Eb not wanting to kill Harry, or even hurt him too badly. There’s a big difference between executing vampires and their goons, and fighting his own grandson (and really, more like fighting to get by his grandson while setting his sights on a different target).
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Offline Mira

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Re: Ebenezar and Harry (peace talks spoilers)
« Reply #34 on: July 19, 2020, 04:24:42 PM »
Eb was always short tempered, it helped power his magic. Eb was training Maggie Snr as his replacement as Blackstaff, she ran away and retirement from that role had to be delayed, he was then affected by Peabody whose influence was to the nudge Senior Council to be more like themselves, the Merlin more cautious,  Eb even more shorter tempered, and subject to his prejudices,  subject to the Blackstaff’s influence and older, suffering from the frailties of old age including Dementia. It all accumulates.

Then there is the Hubris. He has pretty much won every battle at this point otherwise he would be dead, he knows best, his continued existence is proof of it and he can break the Laws of Magic with impunity. Harry beating him is as bad a shock as finding out Thomas is his grandson.

What doesn't ring true, and I think even Harry after the fight hinted at it.  Control, Eb is out of control..  The reason Eb got the job of Blackstaff in the first place I believe is his judgement, and with that judgement comes control.. You cannot let a guy wield a staff of unlimited black magical powers if he lacked self control..   Something is very wrong with Eb, call it dementia or he really is infected with Nemesis, but he is out of control, something he never has been.  Think back to when we saw him use the staff in Changes, that wasn't a pissed off out of control old man even though a lot was on the line, as much as in Peace Talks.   He may have a personal vendetta against the White Court Vamps, but he let the fight get personal, thus it got out of control.

Offline Snark Knight

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Re: Ebenezar and Harry (peace talks spoilers)
« Reply #35 on: July 19, 2020, 06:22:47 PM »
Good point.  Aside from Morgan how many wizards have ween seen between 50 and 150 yards old

Cristos might be. It was kind of lampshaded that he didn't actually come to the position by seniority, but political brinkmanship.