The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers

Who Benefits? Discussion of the players behind the scenes

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morriswalters:
Removing the Reds removed the noise.  It was easier to hide in the crowd.  Now the shadow players have to act without having someone to shield them.
--- Quote from: Yuillegan on June 10, 2020, 12:33:36 AM ---Morris - Obviously Uriel, Mab and Vadderung set things up. But perhaps they unintentionally aided their enemies. Hard to say though. Perhaps everyone just wanted the Reds gone, like the Black Court. And quite right, it does mirror the attack at Arctis Tor - good pick up. The Merlin could well have hinted at the final destruction but that isn't yet clear. Don't be so sure that he will be happy with Harry. Remember he set up the current balance of power, he might not be pleased that Harry has unmade it.

Quite right about the revenge stories. But what does that make Peace Talks and Battle Ground?

To my mind, the books tend to repeat certain things only bigger. So I think Peace Talks is going to be like White Night and Battle Ground like Changes perhaps but on a bigger scale.

--- End quote ---
The Merlin didn't hint, he flatly stated it.
--- Quote ---“No,” Langtry said. “So they never knew it was coming. Period. We will no longer wage a war with that filth, cold, hot, or otherwise. We’re going to destroy them, root and branch.” He lifted his chin slightly as his voice turned to frost. “We’re going to exterminate them.”
--- End quote ---
In term of revenge in the short term, Mab is finished, everybody who screwed with her has suffered.  The Black Council or whatever you want to call them are a stretch  goal.

From a Doylist point of view it looks like Jim is decluttering.  It's time for the foreground to clear out and bring the Black Council out from the shadows.  Jim's treated the Formor like comic strip bad guys. Are they the dog wagging the tail or are they the tail getting wagged by the Black Council? I see the two book combo as being the beginning of the end.  The Black Council arc.

Bad Alias:
@Morris: I don't know if your right, but that definitely makes sense to me.

Archangel62:
This actually gives me a side hypothesis. Different factions wanting Harry might want him because of some destiny or alignment of powers...or they just might want to have the guy who is considered a crazy powerful magic thug who can punch out of his weightclass on their team (if only so he's inside the tent pissing out not outside the tent pissing in).  Like Mab threatens to send her knight and people knowing it's Dresden take an "I'll be good" stance.

I don't think they fully wanted the red court gone at thje speed it happen. Harry ripped them out stem and root, and did it in one fell swoop. Doing that created a major disruption to the balance of power

Yuillegan:

--- Quote from: morriswalters on June 12, 2020, 07:21:24 PM ---Removing the Reds removed the noise.  It was easier to hide in the crowd.  Now the shadow players have to act without having someone to shield them.
--- End quote ---
I think that's a reasonable hypothesis. Without the Reds there is one less cat's paw to use. I suspect the next book will reveal if the Fomor are the hand wielding the weapon or if they are just the replacement for the Red Court...it could well be the that the enemy behind the scenes has several supernatural factions working for it. In fact, it's more than likely as that gives it more options and power. Merely having the one cat's paw is too risky.


--- Quote ---The Merlin didn't hint, he flatly stated it.
--- Quote ---“No,” Langtry said. “So they never knew it was coming. Period. We will no longer wage a war with that filth, cold, hot, or otherwise. We’re going to destroy them, root and branch.” He lifted his chin slightly as his voice turned to frost. “We’re going to exterminate them.”
--- End quote ---

--- End quote ---
I have several problems with that line. But while the symmetry/foreshadowing is clear...it doesn't necessarily follow that he was saying "We are going to use the Red Court's blood curse against them to wipe them out completely". It wouldn't surprise me if he did know about the blood curse and may well have even come to the same conclusion. But that isn't outright saying. He is still only implying at this point - if he had actually told us we would have known the climax before we got there. Also, the Merlin (Arthur Langtry) is British. I doubt he has ever lived long enough in the USA to assimilate cultural idioms like saying "Period" instead of "Full Stop". In Commonwealth English (British) they say Full Stop in the same way American English uses the word "Period" - to strengthen the emphasis of the utterance. I am sure when Jim was writing he was in the heat of writing frenzy and so it didn't occur to him...but it's a shame it wasn't picked up on. It's a very minor gripe of mine, an authenticity and immerssion issue. But still.

And I know Langtry was in America (for whatever reason) during the French and Indian War which I imagine he fought on the side of the British American colonies and Ebenezar fought alongside the French. Jim hasn't said which side each were on (unless I am mistaken) but it makes the most sense for Eb to be fighting for the little guys. Perhaps this is how he and Listens-to-Wind became such good friends.


--- Quote ---In term of revenge in the short term, Mab is finished, everybody who screwed with her has suffered.  The Black Council or whatever you want to call them are a stretch  goal.
--- End quote ---
Yeah I would agree with that.


--- Quote ---From a Doylist point of view it looks like Jim is decluttering.  It's time for the foreground to clear out and bring the Black Council out from the shadows.  Jim's treated the Formor like comic strip bad guys. Are they the dog wagging the tail or are they the tail getting wagged by the Black Council? I see the two book combo as being the beginning of the end.  The Black Council arc.
--- End quote ---
As I say above, you may well be right.

Bad Alias - Interesting idea. But if I recall he says it wouldn't be too much of an imbalance to let Dresden know Maggie was both his daughter and alive. He also through in that Dresden was her only hope. Perhaps Uriel can feel Dresden's pain that intimately. Either way, Uriel is just as manipulative (perhaps more so) as Mab or Anduriel or Lasciel. He does it with "the Greater Good" in mind but ultimately by choosing to say something, by being involved at all, he is taking a position and influencing events. This says a lot about Uriel, to my mind.

Achangel62 - are you saying that these "factions" did want the Reds gone but not as quickly or fully as it happened in Changes? It seems counter-intuitive. If you want them gone at all then you want them wiped out. Why would the Black Council or whoever want to only kill them slowly or cripple them? Same with Mab or Vadderung (who benefited from the destruction of the Reds).

morriswalters:

--- Quote from: Yuillegan ---I have several problems with that line. But while the symmetry/foreshadowing is clear...it doesn't necessarily follow that he was saying "We are going to use the Red Court's blood curse against them to wipe them out completely". It wouldn't surprise me if he did know about the blood curse and may well have even come to the same conclusion. But that isn't outright saying. He is still only implying at this point - if he had actually told us we would have known the climax before we got there. Also, the Merlin (Arthur Langtry) is British. I doubt he has ever lived long enough in the USA to assimilate cultural idioms like saying "Period" instead of "Full Stop". In Commonwealth English (British) they say Full Stop in the same way American English uses the word "Period" - to strengthen the emphasis of the utterance. I am sure when Jim was writing he was in the heat of writing frenzy and so it didn't occur to him...but it's a shame it wasn't picked up on. It's a very minor gripe of mine, an authenticity and immerssion issue. But still.

And I know Langtry was in America (for whatever reason) during the French and Indian War which I imagine he fought on the side of the British American colonies and Ebenezar fought alongside the French. Jim hasn't said which side each were on (unless I am mistaken) but it makes the most sense for Eb to be fighting for the little guys. Perhaps this is how he and Listens-to-Wind became such good friends.

--- End quote ---
Since Jim doesn't speak the Queens English don't expect the correct use of idiom.  He uses the word "root and branch" and "exterminate" to describe what he intends.  Either he was bragging or he had found a way to do what he says he'll do. I have no idea why Jim chose to write that passage.

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