The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers

Thoughts on Simon Petrovich being Cowl

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Arjan:

--- Quote from: Yuillegan on May 18, 2020, 07:38:46 AM ---That isn't necessarily true. Quite likely he would have diminished beyond that had Uriel not intervened. He also still had spirit left.
I am not going to get into another long debate on this (it happened in another thread somewhere) but I will say that again is pure conjecture. Soul and spirit have been used semi-interchangably in the books and in WOJ. What you just said isn't fact or gospel. Unless you have some proof somewhere that you can share?

--- End quote ---
Bob and Uriel make a clear distinction:

Bob in Ghost Story:


--- Quote ---“It’s just a theory,” he said, “because this isn’t my bag. But look. There’s flesh and there’s spirit, right?”
“Yeah,” I said.
“Mortals have both, right there together, along with the soul.”
“I thought it was the same thing. Soul, spirit.”
“Um,” Bob said. “Complicated. Think of your spirit-self as a seed. Your soul is the earth it grows in. You need both when you die. The way I’ve heard it . . . they sort of blend together to become something new. It’s a caterpillar-butterfly thing.”
--- End quote ---

People, including Harry, confuse the stuff and are ignorant but there is a clear distinction between spirit and soul though they are also connected.

Uriel makes the same distinction at the end of ghost story:

--- Quote ---I folded my arms. “What if I dig the ghost routine?”
“You don’t,” Uriel replied. “But even if you did, I would point out to you that your spiritual essence has been all but disintegrated. You would not last long as a shade, nor would you have the strength to aid and protect your loved ones. Should you lose your sanity, you might even become a danger to them—but if that is your desire, I can facilitate it.”
--- End quote ---

Harry's soul is fine, better even, but his spirit is now weak. That is the same spiritual essence corpstaker needs to do anything in the spirit world.

Yuillegan:
g33k - The point I was making is that these elements only affect some things, not others. Mab's intervention saved Harry's physical body. But how did Harry's soul end up in Chicago-Between? Teleportation? Did an Angel of Death carry it? The point is that we are thinking in physical, 3 dimensional terms whereas in the realms of thought, memory and the abstract it probably is irrelevant. Time, distance and space matter a lot less there. So things like Fire and Water are only significant to shades in the Ethereal Plane.

Arjan - As I said, this has been argued before in my previous thread about Souls and Ghosts. https://www.paranetonline.com/index.php/topic,53217.0.html

There are many, many instances in-text of characters using both spirit and soul interchangeably. Bob is also a sometimes unreliable talking head. His understanding, like just about every characters, is limited by his very nature and the amount of knowledge he has. I suspect Evil Bob has more knowledge than regular Bob, yet also would still be limited by his nature.

Lea uses spirit and soul interchangeably. You even quoted it in that thread.
--- Quote ---“With significant capability,” Lea replied, stressing the phrase. “When Corpsetaker’s spirit still dwelt upon the mortal coil, even bodies with latent talent were hospitable enough for her to exercise her full power. But thanks to you, and like you, my dear godson, she has passed beyond the threshold between life and death. Now she requires a body with a much greater inherent talent in order to use her gifts once she is inside it.”
--- End quote ---
At the time you were arguing that Corpsetaker was a soul. Yet by your own previous argument above souls and spirits are different.

I am not going to derail this thread further with a longer discussion about it - if you want to debate it further I have necro'd the old thread and we can discuss it there. It got rather out of hand last time so I would prefer it didn't here.


Back to the original discussion -
Something that has occurred to me is the age of the Heirs of Kemmler.

Grevane seems to be a little older than Luccio (so both are 120+) and I would say Corpsetaker is slightly younger as He/She as Grevane was the first apprentice of Kemmler. Corpsetaker just also seems to be a bit more petulant (which is weird to say about someone who might very well be in there 100s). Cowl might be the youngest OR the oldest. He seems slightly apart from the other two.

If Cowl is older, that makes it significantly more likely he is Simon. Cowl seems to view Kemmler less as a master and more as a peer. Which means they might both be closer in age and perhaps that Cowl was already a learned wizard when he met Kemmler. Like Simon. So perhaps Simon came into contact with Kemmler later in life and decided to become his newest (and perhaps last) apprentice. Perhaps Simon already knew some Necromancy and decided to further his knowledge by going to the expert.

If Cowl is youngest though...it makes it more likely he is Justin. Justin is still old enough (being close to Maggie and Morgan's age I believe) to have met and studied under Kemmler. He was old enough to be on the team that took him down (it was 1961, if he is about Margaret Le Fay's age he would have been in his 160s I believe) It also would be why he is apart from the others as he would have begun his apprenticeship to Kemmler much later than the others.

I think that will help in ascertaining the identity of Cowl.

Also - Margaret La Fay had Harry when she was roughly 180 (unless I am much mistaken). Yet in the one or two descriptions we have of her she is young-ish and beautiful. Not old and matronly like Luccio when we meet her (who is roughly the same age as Margaret La Fey. My only theory is her constant travel through the Nevernever allowed her to unnaturally extend her life (like the Gatekeeper, perhaps?)

morriswalters:
Luccio was born in 1800 according to the timeline as maintained on Jim's site.  Again according to the timeline Maggie is an equivilant age. Also according to the timeline the Wardens had already put the smack on Kemmler once in the early 1800's which would seem to make him a contemporary of Eb, maybe.  Or else he was a savant.  Interesting enough the timeline has Fist Full of Warlocks in 1883 where Luccio visits Dodge City and meets Wyatt Earp.  Which would have been a neat trick, since Earp left in 1879 according to the Wikipedia.  Also oddly enough Luccio considers killing four warlocks with fire magic, but only worries about the masquerade. This somewhat surprised me as I listened to it, anybody with a text version care to correct me?


If Michael was born in 1945 as the timeline suggests and Harry is 20 years younger that has him born in 1965 which would make Maggie about 165. 

Yuillegan:
I believe Wikipedia also doesn't mention his encounter with Necromancers...not everything is left in the history books  ;D

I am of course just being cute. Jim probably should have researched it better...but I am happy for Wyatt Earp to have briefly come back. Or perhaps in the Dresdenverse he didn't leave until after 1883. It is a different timeline to us after all, despite the similarities.

More concerning is Luccio apparently prepared to break the first law, as you point out. The fact that it would shatter this first law just to kill 3 warlocks (and potentially kill the innocent bystanders around) is both strange and worrying. In fact, she would have killed Grevane with magic had he not blocked it. These inconsistencies are harder to rectify. Because as we know - the wardens never aim to kill warlocks with magic. In fact no wizard should attempt to kill at all, according the Laws. They always should attempt to use mundane means. Unless of course, they don't always do that (and cover it up). But that would contradict the squeaky clean image! We also know that the self-defence argument is very tenuous and takes a lot of convincing protect the wizard. This is because the taint may still exist despite the reasons, so killing no matter what the reason may still corrupt the wizard.

Jim needs to clear this up. I hope someone asks him at the next AMA or con (whatever the format).

Also whilst I don't believe that the other necromancers/Thule Society members that were with Grevane were Corpsetaker and Cowl, just because those two warlocks died doesn't mean they weren't resurrected.

I always took Harry to be around 21 as of Storm Front. I believe there is a statement around it. Which puts his birth in the 70s. But regardless...Maggie was very old. And yet didn't look it, and was still able to have a child. Michael's bday is also really strange. It puts him at 75 currently, unless the books are a few years behind now. At best he is around 70 as of Skin Game. Not impossible...but not how the book reads. He seems to be a man in his late 50s to early 60s at the most.

Con:
Sidenote on the Death thing, severa characters have referenced how Harry would/has become more powerful or atleast wider notoriety because of his Death. Other than crazy necromancers. Goes as far back as Lash


--- Quote ---"...your ability to comprehend your environment is very strongly defined by your belief in a number of illusions. Time. Truth. Love."
"Harry: "Enlighten Me"
"To do so you would have to release your hold on mortality"
Harry: "I'd have to die?"
Lash: "Again you have only a partial understanding. But in the interesst of expediency yes, You would ceasee living"
--- End quote ---

But more significantly Vadderung


--- Quote --- "Nothing that significant just happens"
--- End quote ---


--- Quote ---"Wizard... you have been dead and returned. It has marked you. It has opened doors and paths you do not yet know exist, and attract the attention of beings who formerly would never have taken not of your insignificance"
...
"Meaning now more than ever you are a fulcrum. Meaning your life is about to become very, very interesting."
--- End quote ---

As for Cowls identity, my moneys still on Simon Pietrovich with Justin being a runner up..

First said being who takes note of Harry post death and rebirth that I can think of is Hades. a God of Death charged with keeping souls in the underworld, who colluded and organised with Mab and Uriel atleast in part just so he could have a short conversation with Dresden.

As for Cowl my moneys on Simon Pietrovich, with Justin being a runner up. I'd consider Cristos being an option but Ebenezar considers him a fool, and Cowls not a fool, insane maybe but no fool.

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