The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Some curious things in Summer Knight
Bad Alias:
--- Quote from: Yuillegan on March 22, 2020, 09:31:57 PM ---I don't know if it has occured to anyone, but Merlin was a British Wizard. Why on earth would he build [Demonreach] in America (which during his time was not even necessarily known to exist)?!
--- End quote ---
It being beyond the reach of civilization may have been the point. Building such a thing in such a remote part of the world, away from all centers of, at least mortal, power makes a ton of since for me. Even over a thousand years later, it's a difficult place to get to regardless of any of the magical reasons that make it hard to get to.
It has occurred to me. It's part of my theory that the "lighthouse" on Demonreach isn't a lighthouse but is a wizard's tower. Or at least was.
Thinking of it's remoteness, and the Gatekeeper's ease of showing up there, the thought popped up that maybe his beef with Demonreach is that he was once the Warden and he released a prisoner for some reason. He stopped being Warden somehow. Demonreach holds a grudge because of the released prisoner.
It's just a thought that came to me. I don't think it's right, but figured I'd throw it out there anyway.
Yuillegan:
Bad Alias -
Just to be clear, Lea's nemfection was overcome with Mab's help. That is not insignificant. Her power is the one meant specifically to fight Outsiders and their magic. I suspect only Mother Winter herself would be better. We don't have any examples of anyone doing it on their own. And she did it in Winter's own wellspring at the heart of her power. More than a little help. Cat Sith's struggle always seemed more like someone realizing that they might not be alone in their own head, but it was too late, rather than one of a tireless battle from the first infection. Most virus' on your computer are far more effective running in the background where the computer and the user don't even see them. I suspect Nemesis is much the same. Which isn't to say that when they run openly they are not useful to the malicious actors behind the virus, and very terrifying at the same time, because they absolutely are. But it all depends on context and strategy.
I did wonder if Jim's original reason was to do with the weakening of the barrier so they could cross over. When he wrote Summer Knight, the universe seemed to operate by slightly different rules. Fae seemed to cast more spells using words, Harry used magical Names as well as English ones, Fae and Vampires were weaker and couldn't do certain things outside of Faerie (according to Harry), the Ladies were weaker and the Queens were stronger, and crossing between the Never-never and the real world was a lot harder and more significant. But things have been soft-retconned and changed slightly over time. Fae don't seem to say spells (rather just perform them), Harry uses mostly English words as Names, Fae and Vamps are stronger and seem to have no issue doing things outside of Faerie that Harry used to only think mortals could do, Ladies are stronger and the Queens got a little bit nerfed, and going between the Never-never and the real world seems as simple and normal for everyone as walking through a door.
What I am getting at is that it is hard to know what ideas and rules survived from the early series, and it becomes harder to base ideas and WAGs of concepts and text in the early series.
The ley line argument answers some of the problem...you can't tell me that nowhere in Britain or Europe had enough ley lines to build Demonreach etc.
Exactly, why doesn't anything happen in Van Buren eh?? Perspective is god, and hopefully we shall get further perspectives that will answer more of this.
Totally agree as to the writing reasons, it is very difficult to get a city right let alone several. But that's just part of the job as an author I think, getting your research done. It's a hard slog and no one really likes it after a while, but I think the payoff of having a broader story and expanded world is far greater and ultimately more satisfying. Harry isn't a Wizard PI in Chicago anymore - it's time to throw away the mold and let loose.
Well I am sure the local Native American's might not have been super happy with Merlin, I doubt they felt their part of the world was remote enough. Why not build it in Antartica then? Or a remote island in the Pacific? Or the middle of the desert in Africa or Australia?
I have often wondered if Demonreach moves around, or is accessible from several places. Perhaps the original site was an island in England, but has moved with the center of Western Power (i.e. the United States). Rick Riordan did something similar in his series I believe with the Greek Gods following the heart or flame of Western Civilization (Greece to Italy to Britain to America or something like that).
Or perhaps their is more than one entrance, a polar opposite on the other side of the world would make sense. Which I believe would be between the East Coast of Africa and the West Coast of Australia. The only thing there is a few tiny Islands maybe discovered by the Dutch and owned by the French - Ile de la Nouvelle-Amsterdam and another smaller one.
Jim sort of told us why Demonreach is mad at Rashid...similar to in Cold Days how there was an attack on the Gates as well as Demonreach, I suspect there was a similar occasion where in order to relieve pressure perhaps on the Outer Gates or elsewhere, Rashid redirected the enemy to Demonreach in order to secure his own area (believing that Demonreach could weather the assault). I suspect Alfred is upset because ANYTHING that threatens the security of the inmates is antithetical to it, and so bears the grudge. OR Rashid failed to come to Demonreach's aid by putting all his resources and efforts into killing an enemy tank, forcing Alfred to bear the burden alone and almost be overwhelmed (perhaps he even briefly was).
Jim called the tactic "focusing the tank" which comes from MOBA type games, an idea to let a "tanky" character absorb the the frontal assault while the other team mates outflank the enemy etc. or put all your energies into killing an enemy tank. If I understand it correctly.
But it wouldn't surprise me if Rashid had once been the Warden, seems like his sort of thing.
morriswalters:
There is a WOJ on the limp, supposedly Demonreach got it mixing it up with a glacier. Not in a fight with the Gatekeeper. Good luck finding it.
Yuillegan:
Yes I am familiar with it. The glacier caused the limp, which I took to mean the island of Demonreach being cut off from the mainland or something geographical in nature.
The limp had nothing to do with Demonreach's grudge against Rashid - that was Harry's mistaken assumption (the WOJ that you mentioned Morris covers that).
2009 Independence signing:
--- Quote ---Can you tell us more about the runes on the cottage and the lighthouse?
They were not put there by Demonreach; they have been there a very long time. They are pre-Council. They’re a prehistoric script, actually. Harry could have figured out the script if he’d had the comic book. NOTE: I think this has something to do with runes on a wall in Under City seen in Welcome to the Jungle
Also, people have a few things wrong about the Gatekeeper and the island. The Gatekeeper did not hurt Demonreach. Gatekeeper has been on the island a couple of times, and it’s never gone well, but he didn’t cause Demonreach’s limp. That’s the work of the glacier that carved out Lake Michigan.
--- End quote ---
Unfortunately, I think that kills the idea the Rashid is a former Warden. Visiting the island a couple of times probably isn't enough if you were the Warden.
Also those runes in Welcome to the Jungle and on Demonreach...I had a theory a while back about them being related to the Hyperboreans and Atlanteans. Harry should really do some digging.
Bad Alias:
--- Quote from: Yuillegan on March 22, 2020, 10:23:44 PM ---Bad Alias -
Just to be clear, Lea's nemfection was overcome with Mab's help. That is not insignificant. ... Cat Sith's struggle always seemed more like someone realizing that they might not be alone in their own head, but it was too late, rather than one of a tireless battle from the first infection.
--- End quote ---
Agree, but I do think it shows us something about Nemesis.
--- Quote from: Yuillegan on March 22, 2020, 10:23:44 PM ---I did wonder if Jim's original reason was to do with the weakening of the barrier so they could cross over. When he wrote Summer Knight, the universe seemed to operate by slightly different rules. Fae seemed to cast more spells using words, Harry used magical Names as well as English ones, Fae and Vampires were weaker and couldn't do certain things outside of Faerie (according to Harry), the Ladies were weaker and the Queens were stronger, and crossing between the Never-never and the real world was a lot harder and more significant. But things have been soft-retconned and changed slightly over time. Fae don't seem to say spells (rather just perform them), Harry uses mostly English words as Names, Fae and Vamps are stronger and seem to have no issue doing things outside of Faerie that Harry used to only think mortals could do, Ladies are stronger and the Queens got a little bit nerfed, and going between the Never-never and the real world seems as simple and normal for everyone as walking through a door.
What I am getting at is that it is hard to know what ideas and rules survived from the early series, and it becomes harder to base ideas and WAGs of concepts and text in the early series.
--- End quote ---
I really think Jim has done a very good job of retconning the early books. For example, Harry's statements of Bianca not being able to pull the heart spell off outside of the Nevernever still works because it's become clear he had underestimated vampires abilities with magic generally and things are easier in the Nevernever. Also, Harry and Morgan didn't know how someone was pulling it off until near the end of the book because it was a big deal. The claim that they're creatures of the Nevernever is a clearer example of something that seems to have just been straight retconned, but those examples are rarer than the things that can be explained by Harry learning that he was wrong. I think the opening the Ways thing is that Harry has just gotten a lot better and he's not swimming in the kiddie pool anymore. Also, he's not terrified Lea is going to be there to turn him into a dog. Basically, I don't feel like that one was even soft-retconned.
--- Quote from: Yuillegan on March 22, 2020, 10:23:44 PM ---Exactly, why doesn't anything happen in Van Buren eh??
--- End quote ---
Because I picked a randomish state and then a randomish city with a population under 1,000 from a list I found on the internet?
--- Quote from: Yuillegan on March 22, 2020, 10:23:44 PM ---Well I am sure the local Native American's might not have been super happy with Merlin, I doubt they felt their part of the world was remote enough. Why not build it in Antartica then? Or a remote island in the Pacific? Or the middle of the desert in Africa or Australia?
--- End quote ---
Good points. Rashid travels to the darkside of the Moon via the Nevernever, so it's not like a more remote place couldn't be reached. But maybe those places were too remote? New Wardens are going to have to be able to get there. When I brought up remoteness, I was only considering difficulty of people stumbling upon it, not damages to local populations. Maybe Merlin needed to be close to a supernaturally significant area like Chicago to pull it off(if it was indeed supernaturally significant before people got there)?
--- Quote from: Yuillegan on March 22, 2020, 10:50:26 PM ---Unfortunately, I think that kills the idea the Rashid is a former Warden.
--- End quote ---
It was just a passing thought. I had forgotten about the focusing the tank quote. Thanks for reminding me. That's the fun of this board.
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