The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Kincaid microfiction "Goodbye"
Mira:
--- Quote from: morriswalters on May 15, 2020, 04:06:58 PM ---It took a couple of books for Jim to reconcile Eb and Harry. It will be interesting to see if Jim uses Peace Talks or Battle Ground to repair that relationship.
A couple of points for the short story. Being able to reach the pedals isn't a necessary or sufficient condition for driving. Documentation would be key, but it implies that the Archive owns a car. I wonder what kind she would favor?
Also, I would expect that when the double cross occurs, that the Archive would bail. While she can fight, to this date she has relied on security through obscurity. Her true mission would seem to work best when she functions out of sight.
--- End quote ---
But that's the thing, in Small Favor Luccio warns Harry that the Host still has control over the Archive. Normally by the time the female candidate inherits the Archive she has had a life time of
emotional experience to insulate her from all the lifetimes of the Archive Hosts. Ivy hasn't had any of that, she has just been distant until Harry came along, and to some extent Kincaid both attempting to treat her like a normal kid which she has never been.
Luccio asks the question page 408
--- Quote ---Imagine the results of the anger and bitterness and desire for revenge of all those lifetimes, combined with the power of the Archive and the restraint of a twelve-year-old child."
"I'd rather not." I said.
"Nor would I," Luccio said. "That could be a true nightmare. All that knowledge, without conscience to direct it."
--- End quote ---
While it is true that Ivy is older now, not sure her age, somewhere between 17 and 19, I am not
sure there is any evidence that she has made progress on how to keep the emotional distance between herself [Host] and the Archive. So the question for "Goodbye" becomes was the firing of Kincaid merely a cold rational decision based on the facts made by the Archive who feels he is no longer needed to drive the Host around or protect the two of them? Or an emotional one made by
Ivy because she is upset with Kincaid and is pissed enough to kill him using her power?
Bad Alias:
--- Quote from: AClone on May 15, 2020, 04:46:47 AM ---For starters, I think that you innately misapprehend he meaning of “neutral”. Several people seem to be.
“Neutral” does not mean “does not fight”. That’s a pacifist, or someone sworn to nonviolence.
From the dictionary: “not helping either side in a conflict, Disagreement, etc.; impartial”.
When two people or countries are fighting, she doesn’t help either. That’s does not mean that the Archive does not pursue its own purpose. It means it doesn’t help others with theirs.
Look at the example of McAnally. He is neutral, “out”, however you want to say it. And yet when an entity invaded his personal territory, he is free to defend that territory. That doesn’t make him “not neutral”. Nor does it when he helps a groggy Andi. He is still stubbornly neutral.
From the perspective of the Archive, the human race, this world are her territory, and she is doing nothing but defending it against threats. Not taking any side but her own.
The Archive is pursuing her own purpose in eliminating the threat of various monsters. She uses her minions, regardless of their other affiliations, to do so. She’s neutral. She doesn’t help anyone fight their wars, she only fights her own.
Please don’t confuse “neutral” with “inactive”. They aren’t the same thing.
--- End quote ---
How does this make her any different than Marcone or "any other of a dozen neutral arbiters under the Accords?" Is Marcone also therefor bound by neutrality? Ivy might be neutral in the most dry, technical, legal sense, but in any practical sense of the word, Ivy is likely rarely neutral.
I would grant that the Archive could be largely neutral in a conflict between two targets of obliviation, unless she was the instigator of the conflict in the first place. I would also offer that she would take advantage of the weaknesses such a conflict would present to advance her agenda of obliviation. She probably wouldn't ever be totally neutral.
A good example of this the the White Council's war with the Red Court. Ivy ended it.
If not for Ivy, Harry would not have approached Vadderung. If Harry had not met Vadderung, he wouldn't have known to go to Chichen Itza. (Except that this is a fictional story that Jim would have worked out differently). The point is that Ivy took sides in a supernatural conflict to decisively end it in favor of one of the participants.
Ivy is a participant in the larger and ongoing conflict for power in the supper natural world with her own agenda. She may be neutral in this or that conflict, but the White Council and the Faerie Courts are also often neutral in a particular conflict. It doesn't mean that any of them are inherently neutral. I wouldn't be surprised is Ivy is never truly neutral in any conflict. I would expect the Archive to be constantly pushing things this way or that way. I think "undeclared" would be a much better descriptor of what the Archive is actually doing than neutral.
Further, we don't know the extent of the Oblivion War. Is Ivy trying to eliminate everything that is supernatural? The White God, wizards, minor practitioners? Is she only targeting certain supernaturals that prey upon humanity? If it's the latter, she will never be close to neutral in any but the narrowest sense of the word.
And the Archive is certainly not bound to neutrality, which was my original point. Arguing that examples of the Archive being neutral doesn't in any way mean that the Archive is bound by neutrality has convinced me that the Archive is seldom even being neutral. The Archive is, at most, bound to the appearance of neutrality.
--- Quote from: Mira on May 15, 2020, 05:56:38 PM ---in Small Favor Luccio warns Harry that the Host still has control over the Archive. Normally by the time the female candidate inherits the Archive she has had a life time of
emotional experience to insulate her from all the lifetimes of the Archive Hosts. Ivy hasn't had any of that, she has just been distant until Harry came along, and to some extent Kincaid both attempting to treat her like a normal kid which she has never been.
Luccio asks the question page 408
--- End quote ---
Luccio is speculating in that conversation. She states that the many well known oracles were actually the Archive. These oracles helped sides in conflicts. They didn't meet the dictionary definition of neutral. If the Archive is neutral, Luccio is wrong that these women were the Archive. If she is correct, the Archive isn't neutral. If the Archive isn't neutral, Luccio is wrong about the Archive.
Mira:
--- Quote ---How does this make her any different than Marcone or "any other of a dozen neutral arbiters under the Accords?" Is Marcone also therefor bound by neutrality? Ivy might be neutral in the most dry, technical, legal sense, but in any practical sense of the word, Ivy is likely rarely neutral.
--- End quote ---
Well to begin with Ivy/the Archive is the living memory of mankind backed by a hell of a lot of magical power. She can do a whole lot of damage all by her lonesome.. Marcone ain't in her league.
--- Quote ---Luccio is speculating in that conversation. She states that the many well known oracles were actually the Archive. These oracles helped sides in conflicts. They didn't meet the dictionary definition of neutral. If the Archive is neutral, Luccio is wrong that these women were the Archive. If she is correct, the Archive isn't neutral. If the Archive isn't neutral, Luccio is wrong about the Archive.
--- End quote ---
Yes, and most were mad.. Oracles foretell the future based on the past and the information at hand.. That is pretty neutral because it is, what it is... Now what the humans upon hearing the oracle do, or not do with the information is up to them. Prophasies and omens cut both ways.
--- Quote ---
If not for Ivy, Harry would not have approached Vadderung. If Harry had not met Vadderung, he wouldn't have known to go to Chichen Itza. (Except that this is a fictional story that Jim would have worked out differently). The point is that Ivy took sides in a supernatural conflict to decisively end it in favor of one of the participants.
--- End quote ---
Actually Ivy said she couldn't give Harry any information. Harry pressed further and she sent him to Marcone. Harry decisions from that point were up to him, not exactly taking sides on Ivy's part.
Bad Alias:
--- Quote from: Mira on May 15, 2020, 10:14:23 PM ---Well to begin with Ivy/the Archive is the living memory of mankind backed by a hell of a lot of magical power. She can do a whole lot of damage all by her lonesome.. Marcone ain't in her league.
--- End quote ---
Your ignoring the point.
--- Quote from: Mira on May 15, 2020, 10:14:23 PM ---Yes, and most were mad.. Oracles foretell the future based on the past and the information at hand.. That is pretty neutral because it is, what it is... Now what the humans upon hearing the oracle do, or not do with the information is up to them. Prophasies and omens cut both ways.
--- End quote ---
Are you suggesting the Oracles had no idea what would happen when they provided such information? That they didn't profit one side over the other by providing such information? I'm just applying known facts to the definition supplied by AClone and endorsed by you.
--- Quote from: Mira on May 15, 2020, 10:14:23 PM ---Actually Ivy said she couldn't give Harry any information. Harry pressed further and she sent him to Marcone. Harry decisions from that point were up to him, not exactly taking sides on Ivy's part.
--- End quote ---
Telling him Marcone could help is giving him information. It is helping. It led directly to the destruction of the Red Court. Or is Ivy incapable of predicting that because she is completely unrelated to the Oracles?
g33k:
--- Quote from: morriswalters on May 15, 2020, 04:06:58 PM --- ... it implies that the Archive owns a car. I wonder what kind she would favor? ...
--- End quote ---
The safest, most reliable, most practical, versatile one.
But, as noted, something low-key and good for "flying under the radar," so no WWII-era armored Mercedes!
I'm guessing something like an older police-modified (but civilian paint &c) sedan, nice & boring-looking (Ford Crown Victoria? Chevy Impala?), with bullet-proof glass & armor in the body-panels.
Maybe one of the 4WD trucks / SUVs used by rural cops, rangers, etc?
Given the likely resources of the Archive, I expect cost wouldn't play ANY part of the equation.
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