The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Faeries tithe to Hell
Mira:
--- Quote from: Avernite on February 24, 2020, 10:32:57 AM ---To me, the Tam Lin angle might also be a warping of Winter's purpose.
Winter pays a tithe in blood to hold the Outer Gates against hellish beings who would destroy reality. Not much of a stretch from there to 'Winter pays a tithe in blood against hell', and one step further to 'Winter pays a tithe in blood to hell' (because 'obviously' Faeries can't be the ones holding Satan at bay, that must be TWG/Angels).
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Must it? If Hell chooses to attempt to corrupt in an attempt to gain allies against Heaven, why can't the faeries fight too? Mab has said as much back in Small Favor her interests and Uriel's interests do coincide.
toodeep:
I like the idea that the "Tithe to Hell" could really just be a reference to sending forces to the Outer Gates which would seem pretty hellish and from which the probability of return would be.... low.
On the flip side, if all the implications that Nicodemus (and thus maybe Hell) are trying to save the world by preparing to fight outsiders in a different manner than TWG approves of, then Hell might be a potential ally of the Winter Court in the fight against the Outsiders - just as TWG is as well. So Mab may be the only force that can truly cooperate with both heaven and hell right now - though her support of Dresden with the cooperation of Uriel while poking Nicodemus in the eye as he tries to accomplish his ends might strain any relationship Mab has with Hell. Still, I could easily see Mab sacrificing forces to hell when the outer gates are quiet to earn a debt that she could then call upon for support at the outer gates when things get too much for just Winter to handle. Essentially, paying a tithe get their support as mercenaries in a pinch.
Yuillegan:
Avernite - That's a fair point. Perhaps over time the original meaning was lost and changed from "paying in lives/blood" to "paying Hell in blood or lives". Hard to say either way though. I agree that it is highly unlikely Mab is holding the Devil and his forces at bay.
This is for several reasons. Angels are multiverse spanning (as in there is just the one individual existing across the multiverse, not multiple versions of the same being). This is confirmed via WOJ. Secondly, the fight at the Outer Gates is a war between ants compared to the sheer destruction of Angel fights, according to Jim. When Angels throw down planets are destroyed. Uriel himself can obliterate galaxies just by thinking about it (and doesn't do battle in the contested violence sense). He has even ended Universes. Mab and her legions simply can't compete against that kind of destruction. She would be no more of a threat to Hell (in that sense) than Ants are to us.
However, as Mira points out, Heaven and Mab do have coinciding interests. Although I do wonder if Hell occasionally also has coinciding interests with Mab as well. Notice how respectful and neutral she is to Anduriel in Cold Days compared to how she sees Nicodemus.
I would say that if Mab fights Hell, she wouldn't fight with swords and spears and magic, generally speaking. She quite probably is aware that it's the small victories that make the biggest difference. Heaven and Hell are having a war for the souls of mankind, for their Free Will, throughout all the many universes within the Dresden Files Creation. This is fought on such an epic and massive scale that the only way to fight it is one choice at a time. Which means if she were fighting Hell, she would know that each time she deprives them of winning even a small victory, it would add up.
But to be honest, I suspect she keeps out of that whole thing. She is much more neutral and probably is really only interested in any given thing if it helps or hinders her purpose.
Cat Sith and Dresden were allies. Cat Sith isn't evil per se, but hyperviolent and easily bored with a long memory. They are not friends. That is probably Mab's relationship with Angels, generally speaking (although with her almost certainly as the weaker party - I know someone will probably bring up that old quote about Mab having power to rival the Archangels but that has almost certainly been retconned and has never been brought up again. I mean really, when has Mab had the power to obliterate galaxies or end universes via mass magical destruction? Maybe if she abandoned the Outer Gates she could end the world...but that's just one world)
Toodeep - I think the most likely possibility is the sacrifice to Hell for aid, or probably more likely for past aid. Jim has talked about the fact when Mab first took over she had to go into massive debt and ask a lot of favors in order to hold her position and is still paying that off. Hence Skin Game in fact.
Mira:
--- Quote ---
However, as Mira points out, Heaven and Mab do have coinciding interests. Although I do wonder if Hell occasionally also has coinciding interests with Mab as well. Notice how respectful and neutral she is to Anduriel in Cold Days compared to how she sees Nicodemus.
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Mab is anything but stupid, however it was Skin Game not Cold Days. Mab was playing chess, she knows what Anduriel can do, so was playing things very close to the vest. Let's not forget that after this visit she and Harry went to Vadderung to set up the double cross. So yeah, Mab can respect the powers of a fallen angel, that is just smart, it doesn't mean she works with or has ever worked with the forces of Hell.
Con:
--- Quote from: Mira on February 25, 2020, 03:56:32 PM ---Mab is anything but stupid, however it was Skin Game not Cold Days. Mab was playing chess, she knows what Anduriel can do, so was playing things very close to the vest. Let's not forget that after this visit she and Harry went to Vadderung to set up the double cross. So yeah, Mab can respect the powers of a fallen angel, that is just smart, it doesn't mean she works with or has ever worked with the forces of Hell.
--- End quote ---
The Whole debt Mab had to Anduriel was because she had worked with them before. WOJ before she promoted Leansidhe for that purpose.
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