Author Topic: Harry the Anti-Christ, Harry the Merlin  (Read 4892 times)

Offline Yuillegan

  • White Council
  • Posty McPostington
  • *****
  • Posts: 1371
  • Forum Moderator
    • View Profile
Harry the Anti-Christ, Harry the Merlin
« on: February 20, 2020, 07:24:07 AM »
Well this is a really out there WAG, so bear with.

I think there is a possibility that Harry is either one or both of the following:
         
         1.The Original Merlin, the one who founded the White Council.

         2. THE Anti-Christ, as in the bringer of the apocalypse, but not necessarily the "son" of the Devil.

Allow me to explain. Jim mentions in an old WOJ about the origins of his Vampire research a man called Montague Summers. Montague Summers was a somewhat mad (or at least very weird) writer, who wrote about Vampires, Werewolves and Witches etc in 1928 from an academic point of view. Not the myth, per se, but what he seemed to believe were real phenomena. Jim seems to be quite the fan; indeed much of the Dresden Files contains similar philosophy and exposition on the creatures and spirits that are showcased.

For instance, Summers describes a Vampire in it's most basic form as a living dead body that drains the life and destroys a victim. This is very in-keeping with the Black Court. The Stoker-traits were a relatively new thing, and the various Hollywood movies that helped create the image of the modern set of vampires. He has also said that he based the White Court on a mix of the old incubus/succubus mythology and the sort of twilight-esque "hearthrob yet wildly misunderstood" vampire type that emerged recently. Interestingly, Iago (Fred) who used to play AmberMUSH with Jim said that the White Court were very similar to a type of chaotic-house characters that he and Jim created for campaigns. Finally, the Red Court and Jade Court seemed to be rather similar to the cultural lore of their locations in the books (Mexico and surrounds, and China respectively). But I digress.

He also has similar rules to Summers' in the early books - only beings of the flesh can affect the material world, ghosts are spirits and cannot generally affect the material world (without breaking things basically, including themselves) and Angels and Demons seem to have a bit of both, although particularly he mentions the idea that Demons can generate or possess a body, but it is not their "true" body. Their essence.

Anyway, Summers' mentions the idea that a Vampire occasionally was thought of as the offspring of the Witch and the Devil. He also references the thought that the Antichrist will be born through the carnal interactions between a human and a demon.

Merlin was oft thought to be the child of a witch and a Incubus. He also was occasionally thought to be the Antichrist.

Finally, I quote this "the children thus begotten by Incubi are tall, very hardy and bloodily bold, arrogant beyond words, and desperately wicked".

If that doesn't sound like Harry Blackstone Copperfield Dresden, I'll eat my shoe. The "desperately wicked" of course, is debatable and depends on your POV and beliefs. But the rest is him to a T.

But how do we solve the fact that the Original Merlin was running around at the very least 1500 odd year before the events of the series, and that Harry clearly isn't him (currently)? How also do we solve the fact that whilst Harry's mother was indeed a witch, his father was (as far as we know) a vanilla mortal?

Well Time-Travel magic would solve the first problem, easily enough. If Lord Raith was Harry's father though, wouldn't he have been like Thomas? Surely come 18 wouldn't he have become a WCV or at least had the pull of it?

My guess is that it could be one or two things. Perhaps Harry's "real" father wasn't Lord Raith, but an Outsider or even the Devil. And Malcolm was to Harry what Joseph was to Jesus, the Christ. We know Harry's birth on Halloween in-part had something to do with being a Starborn (and probably, a Destroyer). We know that Halloween is the time when the walls between the spirit world and mortal world are thinnest, and all immortals are mortal whilst they are upon the mortal Earth. Perhaps it is more than the conjunctions, perhaps there is something else.

Thoughts?

Offline Bad Alias

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 2208
    • View Profile
Re: Harry the Anti-Christ, Harry the Merlin
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2020, 04:15:03 AM »
On the thought that Lord Raith could have been Harry's father:

Harry's first time was with Elaine. I believe, but am not certain, it was also the first time he did a soulgaze. If they were truly in love, it would have killed the Hunger and Harry would not be like Thomas. I really think Harry and Elaine cared deeply for one another. Was it true love? You'd have to ask Jim.

Also, the timing is vague enough that it could be the case without time spent in the Nevernever shenanigans.

Offline Yuillegan

  • White Council
  • Posty McPostington
  • *****
  • Posts: 1371
  • Forum Moderator
    • View Profile
Re: Harry the Anti-Christ, Harry the Merlin
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2020, 08:12:14 AM »
Would certainly be quite the coup if Malcolm wasn't Harry's biological father.

And great explanation, definitely plausible. I suspect it was true love, although who can really provide a definition of that? It's deeply personal to everyone. Best I have is - when you know, you know.

Timing is vague enough...I am not sure what you mean?

Offline Bad Alias

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 2208
    • View Profile
Re: Harry the Anti-Christ, Harry the Merlin
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2020, 05:50:23 PM »
Quote
~26-27 BSF: Thomas is given a pentacle necklace on his fifth birthday. His mother escapes Lord Raith.

26 BSF: Maggie LeFay meets Malcolm Dresden.

26 BSF, some time between August and October – Malcolm Dresden and his heavily-pregnant wife Margaret visit the Lincoln Memorial.

26 BSF, October 31: Harry is born. Harry’s mother, now Margaret Gwendolyn Dresden, dies in childbirth. She is murdered by a ritual entropy curse, courtesy of Lord Raith.
It "is common for births to occur from 37 to 42 weeks." (Wikipedia). Harry was almost certainly born on the 44th week of the year. (I don't know if October 31st is ever not on the 44th week, but it was in every year of the 70's). Maggie may have escaped Lord Raith that year. She did meet Malcolm that year. Margaret could have been pregnant when she escaped Lord Raith and met Malcolm.

Offline morriswalters

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 2547
    • View Profile
Re: Harry the Anti-Christ, Harry the Merlin
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2020, 06:14:25 PM »
I don't like Raith as Poppa, but something along those lines would get into that whole Star Wars vibe that Jim has a fetish about. Like the reveal where Vader tells Luke, I am your father.

Offline Yuillegan

  • White Council
  • Posty McPostington
  • *****
  • Posts: 1371
  • Forum Moderator
    • View Profile
Re: Harry the Anti-Christ, Harry the Merlin
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2020, 01:06:54 AM »
BA - I get you now. Yeah, very very possible from that POV.

Morris - Totally agree, it would be very Jim.

Something that we haven't explored enough in this theory is why Thomas ISN'T a Destroyer/Starborn, especially if he has the same parentage.

The easy explanation is that Harry was born on Halloween and Thomas wasn't.

But perhaps it is also due to the fact that Harry killed his phage before it had a chance to emerge, due to his relations with Elaine.

But none of that explains why Thomas has very little magical ability and Harry does, apart from a writing reason. My take is Jim when creating Thomas didn't need another Wizard, and his vampire abilities were enough for the story, but he added a little bit of magic later when he needed it in the Back Up short story.

Offline morriswalters

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 2547
    • View Profile
Re: Harry the Anti-Christ, Harry the Merlin
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2020, 04:26:20 AM »
Thomas has too much.  He's pretty and buff.  Has a girlfriend who doesn't mind sharing.  He's wealthy and he could live for thousands of years.  Why in the hell would he get magic.  There is a level of unfairness in that thought that boggles the mind. :o

Offline Yuillegan

  • White Council
  • Posty McPostington
  • *****
  • Posts: 1371
  • Forum Moderator
    • View Profile
Re: Harry the Anti-Christ, Harry the Merlin
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2020, 05:24:07 AM »
Quite agree! Yet I would like a nice convenient plot explanation. But I am but one small fan.

Offline Avernite

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 720
    • View Profile
Re: Harry the Anti-Christ, Harry the Merlin
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2020, 06:28:07 AM »
Harry as a WCV makes no sense from the Justin DuMorne angle. He pretty much left Harry and Elaine to their own devices regarding sexuality, when he should know the most likely result of that would be a dead Elaine and WCV Harry. Who would probably be extra frustrated and likely to run off rather than face the consequences of that, I don't think Justin could twist that into himself controlling Harry even more.

Offline g33k

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 2158
    • View Profile
Re: Harry the Anti-Christ, Harry the Merlin
« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2020, 07:12:24 AM »
... Something that we haven't explored enough in this theory is why Thomas ISN'T a Destroyer/Starborn, especially if he has the same parentage ...

Because parentage is irrelevant?  Being "starborn" is like a wierd mix of astrology & feng shui (as best I can tell).

... But none of that explains why Thomas has very little magical ability and Harry does, apart from a writing reason. My take is Jim when creating Thomas didn't need another Wizard, and his vampire abilities were enough for the story, but he added a little bit of magic later when he needed it in the Back Up short story.
WoJ states that Whampires can only have modest magical talents.  Maybe that's retrofitting things after letting Thomas have a tracking-spell?  That's unclear to me.  Also unclear is whether a Whamp could be up to even weak White-Council standards, or if they don't quite get there... I don't recall if WoJ is explicit on this point.

Bianca had some magic; Arianna had more.  Neither was as strong as Harry, but then again:  very few White Council wizards are as strong as Harry!  I suspect either one could have been a WC wizard, if they hadn't been Ramps.

Mavra absolutely has magic, and I suspect more than either Bianca or Arianna.

Offline Yuillegan

  • White Council
  • Posty McPostington
  • *****
  • Posts: 1371
  • Forum Moderator
    • View Profile
Re: Harry the Anti-Christ, Harry the Merlin
« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2020, 11:55:17 AM »
Because parentage is irrelevant?  Being "starborn" is like a wierd mix of astrology & feng shui (as best I can tell).

Might be irrelevant, might not be. We really have zero evidence either way, hence why I am exploring theories. Quite possibly you are right about what a starborn is, and perhaps that is the same as a Destroyer, perhaps not. But I wouldn't at all be surprised to find out Harry's parentage has contributed to his special status.

WoJ states that Whampires can only have modest magical talents.  Maybe that's retrofitting things after letting Thomas have a tracking-spell?  That's unclear to me.  Also unclear is whether a Whamp could be up to even weak White-Council standards, or if they don't quite get there... I don't recall if WoJ is explicit on this point.

Bianca had some magic; Arianna had more.  Neither was as strong as Harry, but then again:  very few White Council wizards are as strong as Harry!  I suspect either one could have been a WC wizard, if they hadn't been Ramps.

Mavra absolutely has magic, and I suspect more than either Bianca or Arianna.


I don't recall that particular WOJ, but even assuming that's the case it begs the very interesting question of why not? Black Court and Red Court don't seem to have any issues, and I do think that Mavra seemed to have more than Arianna or Bianca (but not more than a Lord of the Outer Night). My guess is that Jim had certain rules built in for Vampires initially that he has done soft reboots of. Red Court vampires were not supposed to be anywhere near as strong or skillful as White Council Wizards, but tbh we haven't seen much evidence of that. We have only met one "real" Black Court Vampire - the ones that Mavra created in White Night (I think) were both very recent and poor examples of their kind. Mavra is old guard, a step below the Elders of the Black Court I suspect. She is as old as Vlad Tepesh (Dracula, Drakul's son)!

Avernite - Your assuming Justin knew who the father was there. If he didn't know Raith was the father then it fits fine. If he did, then I agree it starts to not hold up well, unless he had some other piece of information about how to get rid of Harry's phage.

Offline Snark Knight

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 3913
    • View Profile
Re: Harry the Anti-Christ, Harry the Merlin
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2020, 12:14:32 AM »
I don't recall that particular WOJ, but even assuming that's the case it begs the very interesting question of why not? Black Court and Red Court don't seem to have any issues, and I do think that Mavra seemed to have more than Arianna or Bianca (but not more than a Lord of the Outer Night). My guess is that Jim had certain rules built in for Vampires initially that he has done soft reboots of. Red Court vampires were not supposed to be anywhere near as strong or skillful as White Council Wizards, but tbh we haven't seen much evidence of that. We have only met one "real" Black Court Vampire - the ones that Mavra created in White Night (I think) were both very recent and poor examples of their kind. Mavra is old guard, a step below the Elders of the Black Court I suspect. She is as old as Vlad Tepesh (Dracula, Drakul's son)!

The concern over Council members being captured and turned by the reds seems to indicate their abilities would carry over pretty equally. BCV magic users probably operate similarly.

As for Mavra, she could actually be an Elder for all we know. Jim has played clues about them close to his vest - we don't know whether there was something qualitatively special about the first thirty, or it's a rank for the thirty top BCV's still 'surviving' where one being destroyed means a replacement is promoted. If it means the latter, she's almost certainly among the top tier by now. If the former, I'd have to expect the Elders would have been priority targets for other nations during Stoker's purge - personally, I strongly suspect Tunguska was Ebenezar's way of targeting some of them - but it's still possible a few slipped through.

Offline morriswalters

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 2547
    • View Profile
Re: Harry the Anti-Christ, Harry the Merlin
« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2020, 01:43:40 AM »
Quote
Something that we haven't explored enough in this theory is why Thomas ISN'T a Destroyer/Starborn, especially if he has the same parentage.
The easiest way of explaining why Thomas isn't a Starborn is that they shot at the target and missed.  Having said that it fails to account for Elaine if she was Starborn as well.
Quote from: Yuillegan
Avernite - Your assuming Justin knew who the father was there.
It's unsafe to assume otherwise.  Somebody knew a lot.  They knew where Harry was. And Harry didn't have a fixed address. They tagged after him for six years. And they had a plan for losing surveillance after they murdered Malcolm. And a way to shield him from prying eyes.  Lash doesn't say that parentage is important.   But they couldn't control the circumstances of Harry's birth. The when, where and how unless it was set up before she ran. But if parentage was important and Malcolm was the father then Margaret knew who he was before she ran.  He wasn't random. Is there a hole in that?

And I have to ask, doesn't anyone ever find it funny that Harry does so much rat running with senior level angels.  Not to mention dream mail from dad.  He gets a lot of attention for a non angel.

Offline didymos

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 142
    • View Profile
Re: Harry the Anti-Christ, Harry the Merlin
« Reply #13 on: February 23, 2020, 02:02:24 AM »
The easiest way of explaining why Thomas isn't a Starborn is that they shot at the target and missed.

No one was shooting for anything. Thomas was an accident:

Quote
Did Maggie LeFay Intentionally and for a purpose have a child, Thomas, with Lord Raith?

No. She was having lots of awesome vampire sex and it sort of happened.

Offline morriswalters

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 2547
    • View Profile
Re: Harry the Anti-Christ, Harry the Merlin
« Reply #14 on: February 23, 2020, 02:36:02 AM »
Yeah.  Jim seems to have a misconception, common to men.  That is, if you are having great vampire sex without the benefit of birth control that a baby is an accident. Your genitals know what evolution created them for, and they are tireless and have a great work ethic.