The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers

Traitors

(1/4) > >>

Yuillegan:
In Turn Coat, Murphy says to Dresden that one of the reasons treachery is so reviled is that it often comes from someone you never would suspect.

Jim recently has also said that there are some characters who appear to be good and are not necessarily, and some who appear to be bad who are not necessarily.

With that in mind lets examine a few.


1. Listens-to-Wind.
Because he seems to be a good guy, he makes a perfect candidate for a twist. He also happens to have fought an almost pure evil being in the presence of Harry. Makes his motives seem ultimately good. And he is a good friend of Ebenezar, who is a long-time Dresden ally.

But let us look a little deeper. In Turn Coat he says to Harry in Edinburgh:

--- Quote ---“Once, I watched the tribe I was expected to guide and protect be destroyed, Harry Dresden. I did so because my principles held that it was wrong for the Council or its members to involve itself in manipulating the politics of mortals. I watched and restrained myself, until it was too late for me to make a difference. When I did that, I chose who would live and who would die. My people died for my principles.” He shook his head. “I will not make that mistake again.”
--- End quote ---
He is overtly saying that he won't allow his principles (that an innocent man shouldn't be hung out to dry) to potentially cause the end of the White Council. However he could also be saying that he believes, (interestingly like Simon Pietrovich did/does) that the White Council SHOULD be involved in mortal politics and direct the course of history.

Eb also goes on to say how he has had to deal with terrible anger against the invading British pre-Americans and the massacre of his people. However, what if Eb is wrong? What if Listens-to-Wind is actually still very deeply angry over it? He and Eb also have an interesting argument on Demonreach:


--- Quote ---Listen-to-Wind’s voice became hard and rough, holding a deep and burning anger that I had never heard from the old man before. “There is the world that should be,” he growled, “and the world that is. We live in one.”
“And must create the other,” Ebenezar retorted, “if it is ever to be.”
Listens-to-Wind looked down and shook his head. He looked very old and very tired. “There are no good paths to choose, old friend,” he said quietly. “All we can do is choose if many die, or a few.”
--- End quote ---

That to me speaks of someone who might just be a bit more cynical than Eb (which is saying a lot) and might not be so at ease with the way things are, or the way they are going.

I am not saying necessarily that he has betrayed the Council at this point (although...Naagloshii first shows up here, and despite their differences in cultures, what if the fight between them wasn't as real as Harry assumes it was?) But he might end up betraying it. If he was offered a better Council, a better world he just might take it. And it would make for a real blow to Eb.

2. Rashid - the Gatekeeper
Rashid makes a compelling candidate because he also appears to be on Harry's side, although up until the end of this book more than a little suspicious of him. He also seems rather central to the fight against the Outsiders...and so if he betrays everyone that would be pretty bad. He does seem to believe that not only will Harry challenge the White Council, but that he actually SHOULD challenge them and win. That is very New World Order type thinking, whatever his reasons. He would make for a challenging foe as he his magic is strange and unusual, and he has incredible foreknowledge. Even the Merlin respects him, more than perhaps any of the other wizards. He also is quite possibly the oldest wizard, maybe the oldest human alive (although we must acknowledge that at the very least time-shift shenanigans have probably aided that, perhaps even outright Time Travel). Who knows he may have even crossed into other Universes. In any case, he might not be the good guy we are led to believe.

3. Ebenezar
This is the hard one, and in my opinion would hurt the most. He has the license to break the Laws and is THE combat wizard. He also is a top-level good guy, so it would be a real sucker punch. Worst of all, he is Harry's mentor and grandfather. I cannot imagine a more painful betrayal, except maybe Harry's own parents. BUT. He also created the Gray Council...to hunt himself then. Why fill it with top-tier warriors? And why would he fight at Chichen Itza? Even to save his own life, it wouldn't be enough. And he is strongly allied with Vadderung, and I don't see him pulling the wool over his eye. Still though, it would suck. And he almost certainly was being recruited to this new force/Circle/Black Council by Margaret LaFey...maybe he did actually join.

4. Elaine Mallory
Almost certainly some sort of villain, but maybe not in the new force. We expect a betrayal, but it what form who knows. My money is still on her being Kumori, but even if she isn't she might still be in the Circle/new force. She also has betrayed Harry twice, and Dresden has a habit of falling for the same trick (especially when it comes to women, even more so when they are women he has/had feelings for). My money is she is a finely controlled thrall and when things really start getting revealed we will see who she is and what she has been up to. And we know Harry will hate it.

5. Leansidhe
This is tricky, because it depends how you see her. She was certainly more of an antagonist in the early series than now. She quite likely knows what Maggie was up to, and may well have been involved. However she does seem to protect Harry, and most of her interests seem to be self-motivated more than simply bringing down the house. But she does seem very weirdly connected to a lot of the bad guys, and one wonders just how much she is keeping from Harry.

6. Lara Raith
Not a good guy. But also a sometimes ally. Definitely looking out for number one, she will do whatever it takes to remain powerful and survive the coming disasters (including killing busybody wizards with attitude problems). Don't think she is on the Circle, but might end up there. However she definitely has been fighting against them at a few points, so maybe not. She is a growing threat that probably will be much more of a worry if left alone...yet like Mab might be a necessary evil. But wouldn't surprise me to see her betray Harry and the White Council for more power. She goes on a very interesting speech in Turn Coat:

--- Quote ---Contrary to your own perceptions, the world is a great deal larger than the White Council of Wizardry. You aren’t a vital body in today’s world. You’re a sad little collection of self-deluded has-beens whose self-righteous prattle has always taken second place to its hypocritical practice.”
...
“You think you can simply walk into my home and issue commands and threats as it pleases you? The world is changing, Wardens. The Council isn’t changing with it. It’s only a matter of time before it collapses under its own obsolescent weight. This kind of high-handed arrogance will only-
--- End quote ---

Curiously, Cowl said much the same about the Council during Dead Beat. He believed the Council hadn't adapted to the times and would soon collapse. I don't believe she was merely referring to the speed of mortal invention increasing, she was referring to the changing of the supernatural world.

7. Margaret LaFey
Almost certainly did some stuff Harry will find repellent, and allied with people he would find awful. I mean, she had a child with Lord Raith...that's pretty bad right there. Probably gave Harry a really traumatic legacy that is the main reason his life has been so hard and horrible. This one is inevitable, but what she did and why are mysteries.

Honorable Mentions - Kincaid and Marcone
Both of these dangerous pragmatists clearly have mysterious pasts and secrets, and are not enemies of Dresden mostly but not quite allies in the truest sense. They mostly work for themselves, and almost all of what they do seems to tie into looking out for number one. I think Kincaids origins and past will shock and disturb Harry, as will Marcone's. And I think a show down between Harry and Marcone seems inevitable, but I am not so certain Harry will win.

Characters who are have been suspected of treachery and probably are not traitors:

The Merlin - Arthur Langtry
An antagonist in the series, but probably not Black Council. He already leads one Council, he doesn't need another. He also is mostly responsible for establishing the current balance of power in the supernatural world. He doesn't want to threaten the status quo. A dick he may be, but he isn't a black-hearted monster almost certainly. And too obvious if he did betray Harry, no real emotional pay off. Listens-to-Wind believes that if he falls, so does the White Council. Which almost certainly is foreshadowing.

Molly
Already had her darkside moment, she is Winter Lady now. Unless she gets nemfected, probably not.

Ancient Mai
Like the Merlin, too obvious. Mostly she seems harsh, rigid and cold. She is 400 and has probably seen enough bad times to warrant harsh measures in good times.

Anyone else you guys can think of?

KurtinStGeorge:
Cowl.  Seems like a deluded and possibly insane tool of Nemesis.  Thinks he can survive the Outsider's New Worlds Order if he can make himself into a god, or someone with god like powers.  What if he thinks he needs these powers to keep the Outsiders from destroying everything.  He believes that Nemesis can't be completely stopped.  So the solution is control how they enter our world and find a way to permanently keep them for devouring everything.  If that were the case and Cowl realizes his plan won't work, he might eventually see no other choice is left than to throw in with Dresden.

Kumori.  She believes Cowl's true goal is to put an end to death.  She studies necromancy in order to help fulfill this goal.  After what happened in Dead Beat she could go either way.  Her ability to resist the mental downside of using black magic fails and she becomes completely corrupted and very dangerous, or she might finally see Cowl and his madness for what it really is, and decide to oppose him at all costs. 

Andi. Tragically, she has been driven round the bend by the killing of her boyfriend and being kidnapped on more than one occasion and almost drowning.  I think she stays in wolf form much more than is good for her and might be tempted to look for a way to be stronger; magically speaking, in order to protect herself from future threats.

Nicodemus.  Come on, he's trying to save the world.  NO!  He really is a bad guy.

Mira:

--- Quote ---Andi. Tragically, she has been driven round the bend by the killing of her boyfriend and being kidnapped on more than one occasion and almost drowning.  I think she stays in wolf form much more than is good for her and might be tempted to look for a way to be stronger; magically speaking, in order to protect herself from future threats.
--- End quote ---

She lives with Butters now, but I agree she'd make a good candidate.  Nic I believe will turn things around in the end, things are pointing that way including the Holy Grail.  As the old saying goes, "be careful for what you ask/wish for, you may get it.."  He got it, and if Michael is right about it being such a powerful force for good,  things may not turn out as Nic had planned..  Murphy would make the ultimate traitor,  it is doubtful that Harry would ever fully recover from such a thing...  I know her fans wouldn't..  ::)

BrainFireBob:
Few concepts I have kicking around.

1) There is no Grey Council. Aside from Vaderrung, it's Black Council that showed at Chichen Itza. Their goal is an overthrow of the current supernatural order, not understanding the Outer Gates. Rashid is not involved, because he does.

2) Related: Eb was convinced by Margaret to join the proto-Black Council. He, Martha, and Listens are the villains Harry is unknowingly investigating

3) Nicodemus knows what's going on, and is trying to stop it. Ruthlessly- perhaps killing enough people means there's not enough magic for the Gates to be breached?

4) Mab wants out of her position. She's trying to create a new Guardian of the Gates. Both bad and good.

5) The Merlin is actually the hero.

6) Rashid also wants out

7) Titania is suicidal and only acting as compelled by her mantle.

8) The Erlking wants the Gates to fall because he wants that scrap to happen

9) Kincaid has broken a contract, because he refused to go along with the Black Council- he's actually a man of principle

10) Ivy ultimately wants to eliminate the White Council

11) Mavra became Black Court to have time to stop the outsiders

12) Kemmler was primarily concerned with stopping Nemesis/bolstering the Outer Gates

13) Father Forthill is involved in re-releasing the coins. Some kind of Church conspiracy to "force" selection of Knights

14) Lara Raith is definitely Black Council. When she found Harry was still protected by Susan (and thus immune to her power)- the very next book Peabody has directed Luccio to seduce Harry; this in turn makes him susceptible to Lara. She's using standard White Court tactics to eliminate those who might stop her- she was collaborating with Cowl to eliminate Malvora and Skavis.

Aside from #14, I think these are only possible. #14 I am convinced of- reading the series with that perspective changes everything; especially if Papa Raith was *not* part of the cabal and she always intended to have him taken out.

EDIT: And totally Elaine. Elaine may be Nemfected, may be the vector that infested Justin originally, and may currently be Nemfecting the Paranet, which is where wizard babies ultimately come from.

g33k:

--- Quote from: BrainFireBob on February 09, 2020, 02:56:27 AM ---1) There is no Grey Council. Aside from Vaderrung, it's Black Council that showed at Chichen Itza. Their goal is an overthrow of the current supernatural order, not understanding the Outer Gates. Rashid is not involved, because he does...
--- End quote ---

Cannot agree with any WAG that has some punk mortal wizards outsmarting and manipulating Vadderung...


--- Quote from: BrainFireBob on February 09, 2020, 02:56:27 AM ---... 3) Nicodemus knows what's going on, and is trying to stop it. Ruthlessly- perhaps killing enough people means there's not enough magic for the Gates to be breached?

4) Mab wants out of her position. She's trying to create a new Guardian of the Gates. Both bad and good...
--- End quote ---

I think these are each reasonably likely.  A "redemptive arc" for Nic is one of the popular speculations.


--- Quote from: BrainFireBob on February 09, 2020, 02:56:27 AM ---
7) Titania is suicidal and only acting as compelled by her mantle.

8) The Erlking wants the Gates to fall because he wants that scrap to happen
--- End quote ---

Interesting WAGs.  Titania being mad (or just wanting to retire) seems more possible.  Erl got a crack at some Outsiders in their assault on Demonreach.  Seems to me that the Wild Hunt did OK, but not great:  Harry did his half, then went to help that half Erl was doing (Starborn FTW!) .  I think maybe Erl has figured out that if the Outer Gates fall, the flood of Outsiders will be more than all of Faerie could stop...


--- Quote from: BrainFireBob on February 09, 2020, 02:56:27 AM ---11) Mavra became Black Court to have time to stop the outsiders

12) Kemmler was primarily concerned with stopping Nemesis/bolstering the Outer Gates
--- End quote ---

I've got a counter-WAG for you:  necromancy -- and Blampires -- are based upon Outsider magic/energies.  :-)


--- Quote from: BrainFireBob on February 09, 2020, 02:56:27 AM ---13) Father Forthill is involved in re-releasing the coins. Some kind of Church conspiracy to "force" selection of Knights
--- End quote ---
I'm pretty sure Forthill is too canny to buy into that theory.  OTOH, he may believe in the premises we that "the coins are meant to be in circulation," and not resist very hard when Nic or someone leans on him, "gimme a couple of coins, or this innocent dies."


--- Quote from: BrainFireBob on February 09, 2020, 02:56:27 AM ---14) Lara Raith is definitely Black Council. When she found Harry was still protected by Susan (and thus immune to her power)- the very next book Peabody has directed Luccio to seduce Harry; this in turn makes him susceptible to Lara. She's using standard White Court tactics to eliminate those who might stop her- she was collaborating with Cowl to eliminate Malvora and Skavis.
--- End quote ---
Huh.  This is interesting!

We saw some signs that Papa Faith may have been Black Council, and Lara has his library & resources, and probably had him eagerly spill every secret he knew.  She may WELL have joined the BC.

Someone in another thread recently pointed out how VERY alike Lara's condemnation of the White Council was, compared to the Cowl/Kumori criticisms.

Navigation

[0] Message Index

[#] Next page