The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Harry's use of Black Magic
Bad Alias:
--- Quote from: Mira on February 10, 2020, 03:43:02 PM ---The very same acts are not dealt with by the Fae, so is there a stain or not?
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I think that is the question. If Lea kills someone in Chicago, it isn't murder because murder is "the unlawful killing of another human being with malice aforethought, express or implied." The laws of magic, as understood by the Council, are basically "don't do X" with an understood "to mortals." What if there is also an understood "mortals" in front of "don't do X?" It could be that Lea can't do black magic because she isn't mortal. Now there is the question of whether or not a fairy queen is at all mortal and therefore is subject to the cosmic, not council, laws of magic.
--- Quote from: Mira on February 10, 2020, 05:30:22 PM ---"By any other name does a rose smell as sweet?" So an act done by a wizard is soul staining black magic, but the exact same act done by a Fae isn't?
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Generally speaking, they don't have a soul to stain, so generally speaking, no.
--- Quote from: Arjan on February 10, 2020, 12:26:29 PM ---They are mostly correct because they ignore free will which gives a good approximation of the expected results. The knights of the cross and Uriel look at the problem from a completely different angle. They are all about the importance of free will and want to give the warlock a chance.
In reality each case is different
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This is an important point. The Merlin's perspective is that Nature determines actions. The KotC's perspective is that mortal's have Choice (the ability to act against their natures). Uriel makes the point in The Warrior that mortals almost never exercise Choice. I think Choice vs. Nature is an important theme of the DF.
Mira:
--- Quote ---Generally speaking, they don't have a soul to stain, so generally speaking, no.
--- End quote ---
But supposedly Mab began as a human, Molly, as far as we know is still human..
morriswalters:
--- Quote from: Mira on February 10, 2020, 05:30:22 PM ---"By any other name does a rose smell as sweet?" So an act done by a wizard is soul staining black magic, but the exact same act done by a Fae isn't?
--- End quote ---
In the Dresdenverse, apparently, yes. But the irony is striking, unless I missed something no Fae, in the text, has actually killed with magic. Did I miss something?
g33k:
--- Quote from: Mira on February 10, 2020, 02:04:19 PM --- Depends on how you define it I suppose.. Under most laws murder is a crime, but what about the few places where it isn't against the law? It is still murder, but one is punished where the other is not..
But the Courts have their own set of rules, It is against those rules for Mab to kill or harm a mortal herself, that is why she has a mortal Knight to carry out her orders.. It is a loop hole, she has a mortal hit man.. Yet since she ordered it, does it stain her?
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The Queens use a LOT of mental magic. Mab made Harry forget things, Mab AND Maeve filled Harry with lust. This is also Black Magic, but apparently un-damaging to them.
My assertion is that it would be damaging to Molly: to the part(s) of her that are still human, and still cares about people. Eventually, be it the Mantle or the Black Magic, Molly won't really care for humans anymore... except maybe as mild affections.
Arjan:
--- Quote from: g33k on February 11, 2020, 01:30:04 AM ---The Queens use a LOT of mental magic. Mab made Harry forget things, Mab AND Maeve filled Harry with lust. This is also Black Magic, but apparently un-damaging to them.
My assertion is that it would be damaging to Molly: to the part(s) of her that are still human, and still cares about people. Eventually, be it the Mantle or the Black Magic, Molly won't really care for humans anymore... except maybe as mild affections.
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Harry created a lust potion without problems. Just raising emotions is not seen as entering someone’s mind.
And in a way the Sidhe queens need permission to enter someone’s mind. Mab could not have done it without his debt to her. The way Sidhe deals work might be enough not to make it black magic.
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