The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Drakul is the third Walker
Yuillegan:
--- Quote from: isoycrazy on August 22, 2019, 11:26:21 AM ---I like the concept of Drakul being an outsider trapped and unable to die. Perhaps Vlad II was a real man who sacrificed his own life and existence to save his people from this evil and became a human prison for it? Or was some evil person who sought power but didn't understand the price. Like how Fallen is trapped in a coin and, when it has a host, a human-shaped can. They can do more things but are still limited by a human's reach.
As for SoS and Dracula being born, two possibilities. If Drakul is the human-shaped can the outsider is in, then some of that plumbing still works and there could be enough of his soul left to care for someone to produce a child. And like that, maybe Lucifer will posses a human to conceive a child that way. He will use the love of these two mortals to force the creation of his offspring. After all, Nicodemus shows his plumbing still works in having made a daughter after he was possessed, and several centuries after he found the coin.
And while love is nice in the creation of a new soul, I don't think it is needed in all cases, otherwise you set a bad precedent for when rape causes pregnancy. I don't think you want to say there is love in that moment when the victim is against this from happening, nor that any kid born from rape is "soulless" as the parents' souls didn't merge into a third.
It is just that an act of love is a type of creation but not all types of creation are acts of love.
--- End quote ---
Just to be clear, I am not saying love is necessary to create life, Jim did (via Harry). I quite agree that such a simplistic idea runs into very obvious and much more complex problems, but read that whole passage where Harry talks (I think to Susan) about it. He talks about primal forces of energy and stuff. True, I did embellish and discuss it in more depth than the original passage, but that was what I inferred. Perhaps Jim will clarify one day I hope, I certainly don't believe it myself. Hence why I put the disclaimer at the bottom of that post. :)
Your theory is good, although I couldn't tell if you were saying Lucifer was an Outsider or not...I think Jim makes a pretty strong distinction that he isn't. He also has stated that they are not working together, and that Lucifer isn't Nfected. Something to do with Archangels being Absolute and such. And that Lucifer wants Creation to exist, he is merely engaged in an argument with God about its nature or some such. Where as the Outsiders just want to obliterate it.
I agree that there is enough *something* for Lucifer to produce a child. Even Drakul can. Which would imply that "love" and indeed GTWG are not necessarily directly required to create life. But that opens up a whole new can of worms.
Guys: I think we also in this argument should consider how Jim writes, and talks, about Free Will. Whilst it might not be the entirety of his views, I do suspect there are a fair bit of them embedded in his works and comments. So in terms of the Dresdenverse, I think that there is always Choice. I think to Jim's way of thinking (if I can be so bold as to guess his mind), no Free Will and no Choice, amounts to one and the same - which is tyranny. It is so fundamental to the series, and the universe he has created, I cannot imagine there is any part of Creation that has no Choice for Mortals. Outside is quite likely different. But I think Inside you always have a Choice. If not several.
Bad Alias: Whilst your argument is logically sound, I don't think it fits the structure of the series. Which is probably more a fault in Jim's planning than anything else. Will he ever correct this? Probably not, unless it imposes a major issue on the story.
isoycrazy:
--- Quote from: Yuillegan on August 23, 2019, 06:04:37 AM ---Your theory is good, although I couldn't tell if you were saying Lucifer was an Outsider or not...I think Jim makes a pretty strong distinction that he isn't. He also has stated that they are not working together, and that Lucifer isn't Nfected. Something to do with Archangels being Absolute and such. And that Lucifer wants Creation to exist, he is merely engaged in an argument with God about its nature or some such. Where as the Outsiders just want to obliterate it.
I agree that there is enough *something* for Lucifer to produce a child. Even Drakul can. Which would imply that "love" and indeed GTWG are not necessarily directly required to create life. But that opens up a whole new can of worms.
--- End quote ---
I wasn't meaning Luci was an Outsider, rather to produce the Anti-Christ, Luci could possess or have a shadow possess a mortal man who sires the child with a woman.
Bad Alias:
--- Quote from: Yuillegan on August 23, 2019, 06:04:37 AM ---Guys: I think we also in this argument should consider how Jim writes, and talks, about Free Will. Whilst it might not be the entirety of his views, I do suspect there are a fair bit of them embedded in his works and comments. So in terms of the Dresdenverse, I think that there is always Choice. I think to Jim's way of thinking (if I can be so bold as to guess his mind), no Free Will and no Choice, amounts to one and the same - which is tyranny. It is so fundamental to the series, and the universe he has created, I cannot imagine there is any part of Creation that has no Choice for Mortals. Outside is quite likely different. But I think Inside you always have a Choice. If not several.
Bad Alias: Whilst your argument is logically sound, I don't think it fits the structure of the series. Which is probably more a fault in Jim's planning than anything else. Will he ever correct this? Probably not, unless it imposes a major issue on the story.
--- End quote ---
Agree entirely, which is why what I've heard about how the multi-verse in the Dresden Files works irks me so much. That and perhaps the Emerson quote a "foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds."
morriswalters:
--- Quote ---I'm using "choice" as short hand for the exercise of free will, which is a rarity. Think of it as if Dresden lives in a largely deterministic universe where in rare instances people exercise free will in a non-deterministic fashion. Most actions or inactions would normally be entirely predictable given enough information. However on rare occasions, the prediction would be wrong because someone Choose.
--- End quote ---
Jim seems to have cribbed his idea of free will from the Alex Verus. Or maybe I put the cart before the horse, and it's the other way around. Benedict Jacka's character sees events as a set of diminishing probabilities as he approaches a nexus. So his choices become limited by decisions he makes as he goes on. But if he survives that nexus the choices again become numerous.
This almost perfectly mirrors what Mother Summer and Winter appear to be seeing when events in Cold Days lead Mother Summer to take Harry to the outer gates. Harry's exercise of free will is in accepting the consequences Mother Summers invitation. It is at this nexus that choice or free will come into play.
The idea being that most choice or exercises of free will are lost in the noise, and makes no difference to the final outcome. Until you approach one of these points. So in Grave Peril Harry moves to the point where he must must make a choice about Susan. At each step through the books he progressively narrows the number of possible outcomes to reach that point where there is only a limited number of choices to move forward. And it is at this point where free will and the idea of choice become important.
I don't know if this makes much sense in the context of this thread but is how I see free will playing out in the Dverse.
Vodyanoy:
--- Quote from: morriswalters on August 23, 2019, 05:10:12 PM ---Jim seems to have cribbed his idea of free will from the Alex Verus. Or maybe I put the cart before the horse, and it's the other way around. Benedict Jacka's character sees events as a set of diminishing probabilities as he approaches a nexus. So his choices become limited by decisions he makes as he goes on. But if he survives that nexus the choices again become numerous
--- End quote ---
IIRC, Dresden actually describes how the Ordo Lebes member with short term precognition’s ability works in a very similar, cloud of probabilities kind of way.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[*] Previous page
Go to full version