The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
How often does Harry's withholding of information actually get people hurt...
Mira:
--- Quote ---For the record Mouse wasn't trained as an attack dog. Not in the text. Mouse is smart. He can read and understand English.
--- End quote ---
Mouse is an effective guard dog, trust me, he knows how to attack, that is what makes him an effective guard dog... Yes, he is smart and can read and understand English, he also knows how to
attack when he needs to... Attack to kill if need be.
--- Quote ---There would probably be fewer fatalities and bites if people like your dog handler friend remembered that dogs are animals. Your friend would benefit from reading this.
--- End quote ---
I didn't say she was my friend, I did say she is a dog handler, which means she knows very well what dogs are, what they capable of and can do.. She works a dog, to find human remains in all kinds of nasty situations.. Also to search for and save live people in all kinds of nasty situations and weathers... Have you ever tried to train dog to do such work? Have you actually worked a dog?
--- Quote ---I am sensitive to this subject currently since I have two great grandchildren under 18 months whose parents don't really understand dogs. My wife was bitten because she ignored the first rule. Do not approach strange dogs. Carry on.
--- End quote ---
Do you really understand dogs?
Then let me educate you so it turns out well for your great grandchildren and their parents....
True, one shouldn't approach a strange dog.. That is good if you see a dog off by itself, if someone is with the strange dog, always ask first if it is okay to pet the dog? If the owner says, "no." Don't try to pet... If the owner says,"Yes." Here are some good rules... Never look a strange dog directly in the eye, it could see it as a challenge.. Next, let the dog smell your hand coming from underneath the dog's chin... Never pat the top of it's head or reach over the top of it's nose, it could feel threatened by that.. Follow those rules and everyone should be pretty safe... I could go into paying attention to a dog's body language, but that is a little more complicated you can look it up..
morriswalters:
--- Quote ---Do you really understand dogs?
--- End quote ---
Well enough to never get bit. However that was a PSA. Mouse is a genius among dogs. Dogs can't process language like a human. Mouse can read. The point is that attack dogs don't work the way you apparently believe. Or perhaps I am mistaken.
huangjimmy108:
--- Quote from: morriswalters on June 09, 2019, 07:47:50 PM ---Harry does this over and over. He's protecting Murphy. He's protecting Kim. He's protecting Molly. Can you see an ongoing pattern in what Harry is doing.
--- End quote ---
Most of it are unintentional. The harm is done out of ignorance rather than out of malice, but it is harm done by Harry regardless.
1. He practice as a real wizard openly and advertise himself in the yellow pages. This opens the pandora box. It provides a convenient avenue whereby vanilla mortals and unprepared practicianers the chance to access the more dangerous and deadly part of the supernatural world. Though we may argue that people like Susan can and probably will get into the dark and deep end of the supernatural world by themselves, Harry openly practicing as a real wizard makes matter a lot worse. Harry done this despite the disapproval of the senior members of the council and he know it.
FM:
"Oh, come on, Harry," she told me. "You'reChicago 's only practicing professional wizard, and you're the only one who can help me." She leaned across the table toward me, her eyes intent. "I can't find the references for all of these symbols. No one in local circles recognizes them either. You're the only real wizard I've ever even heard of, much less know. I just want to know what these others are."
As we can see, Kim Delaney, a somewhat connected practicianer cannot easily find access to a wizard. Without Harry, gaining access is not so easy, especially during the early parts of the series where the world is still peaceful and stabil and secrecy is held tight.
2. Harry gave partial information to amateurs. Though he warm them about the dangers afterwards, his conduct are likely to encourages the amateurs instead. For example: Harry explain the 3 layered circle to Kim, but he only explain the first and second circle and he lied to Kim about the 3rd circle. Harry told kim that the 3rd circle is gobbledygook. He show kim some of the stuff, hide the most interesting ones and then told her "Don't do this!"
We know how that kind of admonission tends to encourages the curious to do the exact opposite. This is most prominently shown when it comes to Molly. The reason why Molly dabbles with magic and end up doing black magic is because the impression Harry made. I am certain Charity done all she could to warn Molly about the dangers of magic, but we know how that turns out. To a certain extent this happened to Susan too.
3. Harry involve amateurs in high level game. This equivalent to involving civilians in military matters. It is tabu. In Harry's defense, he is kind of desperate and outmatch, but it is still wrong. It is the bad out of the worse but it is still bad.
This is what Morgan say about it:
He shook his head wearily. “There’s a reason we don’t encourage amateurs to try to act like Wardens,Dresden .”
I scowled at him, got a bowl of warm water and some antibacterial soap, and started cleaning up his left arm. “Yeah, well. I didn’t see any Wardens doing anything about it.”
“Chicago is your area of responsibility, Warden Dresden.”
“And there I was,” I said. “And if they hadn’t been there to help, I’d be dead right now.”
“Then you call for backup. You don’t behave like a bloody superhero and throw lambs to the wolves to help you do it. Those are the people you’re supposed to be protecting.”
“Good thinking,” I said, getting out the bag of saline, and suspending it from the hook I’d set in the wall over the bed. I made sure the tube was primed. Air bubbles, bad. “That’s exactly what we need: more Wardens inChicago .”
Harry is a wizard and in the later parts of the series, a warden of the council. He is not suppose to involve the alpha's at all. If he intended to involve the alpha's he need to provide information, trainning and equipment, the way the council train and equip wardens. He is ill prepared and for a wizard that is a fatal mistake.
In the later parts of the series, especially after book 12, most people involve with Harry already well informed and quite expirienced. Most of them already survive and sometimes even triumph against supernatural powers at least once. The problem of involving amateurs in the game of heavy weights becomes less prominent as a result.
nadia.skylark:
--- Quote --- He practice as a real wizard openly and advertise himself in the yellow pages. This opens the pandora box. It provides a convenient avenue whereby vanilla mortals and unprepared practicianers the chance to access the more dangerous and deadly part of the supernatural world. Though we may argue that people like Susan can and probably will get into the dark and deep end of the supernatural world by themselves, Harry openly practicing as a real wizard makes matter a lot worse.
--- End quote ---
Objection: I see no evidence that Harry openly practicing as a wizard makes matters any worse at all, much less a lot worse.
I do see evidence that Harry openly practicing as a wizard makes matters involving people getting involved in the supernatural better.
Exhibit A: The Sells family. Victor Sells gets involved in a much nastier part of the supernatural world than anyone Harry has gotten involved. The fact that Harry is an openly practicing wizard allows Monica to come to him, making things better.
Exhibit B: Any time Marcone has contact with the supernatural world in Storm Front and Fool Moon. He does this without Harry's help, and Harry mitigates the damage.
--- Quote ---Harry gave partial information to amateurs. Though he warm them about the dangers afterwards, his conduct are likely to encourages the amateurs instead. For example: Harry explain the 3 layered circle to Kim, but he only explain the first and second circle and he lied to Kim about the 3rd circle. Harry told kim that the 3rd circle is gobbledygook. He show kim some of the stuff, hide the most interesting ones and then told her "Don't do this!"
We know how that kind of admonission tends to encourages the curious to do the exact opposite.
--- End quote ---
Anyone whose response to a supposedly-trusted expert saying "don't do this," is to decide that that is a reason to do whatever "this" is, is going to get in trouble no matter what anyone does.
--- Quote ---This is most prominently shown when it comes to Molly. The reason why Molly dabbles with magic and end up doing black magic is because the impression Harry made.
--- End quote ---
The reason Molly started experimenting with magic is because she accidentally turned herself invisible. The only thing Harry's impression on her caused was encouraging her to hide it from Harry. If Harry hadn't been involved, it would hardly have improved the situation.
--- Quote ---I am certain Charity done all she could to warn Molly about the dangers of magic, but we know how that turns out.
--- End quote ---
Objection: Statement contrary to the evidence.
Fact 1: We know Charity knew about the Laws of Magic--it says so in Proven Guilty.
Fact 2: We know that Molly did not know about the Laws of Magic--it says so in Proven Guilty.
Conclusion: Charity has not done all she could to warn Molly about the dangers of Magic, because she did not warn Molly about the Laws of Magic.
--- Quote ---Harry involve amateurs in high level game.
--- End quote ---
I would dispute this. Harry frequently tries to avoid involving amateurs in high level games, and when he does involve them, he usually does so by giving them all the facts first.
-He tries to keep Susan uninvolved.
-He tries to keep Kim uninvolved.
-He tries to keep Murphy uninvolved, until he fills her in on everything.
-He tries to keep the Alphas uninvolved, until he fills them in on everything (I don't count him going to Will's house when he saw the Skinwalker, because he was clearly in no state to think clearly or make rational decisions).
Mira:
--- Quote from: morriswalters on June 15, 2019, 02:05:33 AM ---Well enough to never get bit. However that was a PSA. Mouse is a genius among dogs. Dogs can't process language like a human. Mouse can read. The point is that attack dogs don't work the way you apparently believe. Or perhaps I am mistaken.
--- End quote ---
Fantasy, Mouse, he can read, verses reality.... Dogs understand quite a bit, while they cannot read books, they can read body language, they also have a large vocabulary... They have remarkable noses, they can find lost people, they can distinguish between dead human remains and other animal remains, they can sniff out cancer, they can tell when a human is about to have a seizure, they can sniff out drugs, they can sniff out explosives, I could go on...
Guard dogs..
--- Quote ---
The dog does not attack out of fear or anger, the dog attacks because he has been commanded to. Attack dog training, if carried out properly is very useful in personal protection. However the dog should still use his own initiative, if situations arise where the handler has been injured and cannot give a command.
--- End quote ---
In other words.... That guard dog will attack on it's own to protect it's handler, the object of that attack will not be wearing a nice protective bite suit. If the handler is incapacitated, he or she may not be able to give the "stop" command .. Most likely the dog will go after the arm or leg because it is easiest to get to, but that doesn't rule out the throat.. Oh, both the arm and the leg contain arteries, bleeding out is a possibility.. So can a guard dog kill? Yup...
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