The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
How often does Harry's withholding of information actually get people hurt...
Mira:
--- Quote from: noblehunter on June 10, 2019, 03:12:06 PM ---Major downside of ebooks/audiobooks. Much more difficult to direct people to the right spot for quotes.
--- End quote ---
True, but still important, even with audiobooks and ebooks, chapters at least can be given.
nadia.skylark:
--- Quote ---No. Harry is protecting them.
However, remember Mab's words to Harry after the fight on Demonreach in Cold Days. Quoting Mab.
--- Quote ---You made her curious about what you could do, and nurtured that curiosity with silence.
--- End quote ---
And.
--- Quote ---I stood there with my mouth open for a second. "That...that isn't...what I did."
Mab leaned closer to me and said, "That is precisely what you did," she said.
--- End quote ---
--- End quote ---
So, you're saying that Harry was trying to protect Molly by not telling her about magic? That's not right. Harry wasn't around when Molly was learning about her magic because he was explicitly avoiding Michael due to the whole Lasciel situation. Protecting Molly didn't factor into it.
morriswalters:
Well. I'll keep that in mind for the future. I would have thought Mab's final speech in Cold Days and the snippets I quoted were both obvious and easy to find. However on the Kindle version it is page 509 of 515.
--- Quote from: nadia.skylark on June 10, 2019, 04:11:20 PM ---So, you're saying that Harry was trying to protect Molly by not telling her about magic? That's not right. Harry wasn't around when Molly was learning about her magic because he was explicitly avoiding Michael due to the whole Lasciel situation. Protecting Molly didn't factor into it.
--- End quote ---
Read Chapter 15 of Death Masks. At this point Molly is fourteen. If you don't understand why I chose those quotes, with that context, me telling you will not provide any clarity. Harry will pick up the coin at the end of the book and not be around Molly again until Proven Guilty.
Next I offer a speech from Chapter 34 of Turncoat.
--- Quote ---I lifted a hand. “Don’t apologize. Maybe I’m the one who let you down. Maybe I should have taught you better.” I petted Mouse’s head gently, looking away from her. “It doesn’t matter at the moment. People have died because I’ve been trying to save Morgan’s life. Thomas might still die. And now, if we do manage to save Morgan’s crusty old ass, he’s going to report that you’ve violated your parole. The Council will kill you. And me.”
She stared at me helplessly. “I didn’t mean to—”
“Get caught,” I said quietly. “Jesus Christ, kid. I trusted you.”
--- End quote ---
Now contrast this against what he asks of her in Changes as revealed in Ghost Story.
Now read Ghost Story, starting around page 542. I can't quote enough to give you the gist of the passage.
Bad Alias:
I wouldn't argue that Harry hasn't hurt people. Harry is arguably a murderer. He has killed a lot of people and not people. My argument is very specific. Harry withholding information hasn't hurt anyone (in the short term because we can't predict long term effects) with the exception of not telling Murphy about the White Council and the Doom in Storm Front.
What he did in Changes doesn't really matter to that point.
I don't see the point of citing page numbers. There are so many different versions of the books it's basically pointless. I use fbreader, in which the page numbers are determined by the font the user selects.
kbrizzle:
To be honest, I believe that Harry is correct in keeping info from people on the lower rungs of power in the DV. It is not his fault that they (Susan, Kim etc) are independent & proud - they certainly deserve most of the blame for explicitly doing things Harry tells them not to - & they pay for it. They do this because being a go-getter in the mortal world has worked out for them, but the supernatural world plays by different rules where one’s power level generally unlocks appropriately dangerous knowledge. Kim & Susan don’t understand this - Murphy is more situationally aware from her police work & I don’t recall Molly getting hurt from Harry withholding info (he hurts her unintentionally). Blaming Harry for this removes his agency, not theirs.
Most of the arguments I’ve read in this thread seem to focus on Harry not going out of his way to explain the rules & dangers of the supernatural world appropriately to the noob ladies in his life, but I disagree - no one is forcing Kim to build a circle that Harry would have trouble with or Susan to come to Bianca’s shindig where Harry is unsure he’ll make it out alive -they made these decisions with his express disapproval. Additionally I don’t think for a second that if Harry turned them down, they wouldn’t have looked elsewhere (more dangerous places) for that info which might’ve worked out even worse for them. I don’t understand the commenters who think that without Harry, Kim & Susan wouldn’t have figured out a way to dabble in the supernatural world. They are smart, dogged & connected enough to make this happen regardless of Harry - he just made it easier since he’s a good person.
It’s kinda like abortion or teen sex - whether you agree or disagree about the morality of the acts, it’s not going to dissuade the determined from going through with it even if they’re aware of the dangers.
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