Other Jimness > Codex Alera Spoilers
A Map (cont'd) Spoilers Spoilers Spoilers
Tsunami:
So here is what just came to mind when i looked at the maps.
Why is that the Tiber is always running through Alera Imperia? In CaF they have to sail to the Gaul to get to the capital. If the Tiber ran past there, why would they do that, they could just have gone up the Tiber, without the detour.
Keep up the good work. :-)
Spyndel:
I was also wondering if there had been any community updates since Princep's Fury.
Im interested in doing a high end fully illustrated Alera map based on belgarion's and other's consensus here, but was thinking an update might be in order after the new book. I do this sort of thing professionally, and am no slouch at it, but I would want the most up to date consensus before doing something like that.
One thing I was wondering...In Princep's Fury, since it was revealed (click to show/hide)Doroga was "respected" by the Icemen, enough to mediate between the two races...doesn't it seem likely that the Iceman Lands and the Marat territory are actually connected in some way that would allow for independent contact of the two peoples?
Current map thinking has the two lands separated by water, and we know Marat aren't moving freely through Aleran lands. Sailing technology seems out of character for the Marat. It sounds like maybe the two territories would actually be close enough for the Marat and the Icemen to have possibly had the kind of interaction necessary for (click to show/hide)Doroga to develop that kind of reputation with them.
belgarion:
Hi,
I haven't had a chance to do a Princep's Fury map yet. Sometime this week I'll probably have some time. My family will be away next weekend and I'll be free and have some peace and quiet to concentrate. I've been helping another author with her new book(s).
Usually, I throw a tentative black and white line drawing map out and everyone chimes in. Please feel free to throw a PF map out here and we'll all jump in. Once we more or less have a tentative agreement on a map, we start to make it look good. Up to now we really haven't totally finished with the maps since the series is not completed. It would be great if your a map professional and you can make a handsome map or maps for the series. Lots of readers look at the map thread(s) and download the maps for reference. If you want to shoot a PF map or better looking maps as replacements for the others , I'll put them up on Flicker for everyone to download. I don't mind maintaining that space until the maps are finalized and we can find space on Jims' site somewhere.
Concerning your question about the Icement and the Marat. I suppose the Sea of Ice could be an inland sea but I've never gotten that impression. I'm not so sure that the Marat don't have aquatic transport, since Kitai didn't get sick on the voyages like Tavi did. That doesn't prove or disprove anything, just a thought. Sorry about the double negatives. And yep, Kitai did use ropes made of Icemen hair. It's never been said whether they were acquired in trade or otherwise.
Mikey
Priscellie:
Well, Princeps' Fury makes it fairly clear that Ceres is southeast southwest of Alera Imperia. Jim even lists it among the southern cities here. We might also have to move Aquitaine a little more northerly, as that doesn't make the list.
I swear, I'm going to make Jim scrawl a map of Alera on the back of a napkin next time I see him. Come on, man! We want an official map!
Spyndel:
--- Quote from: belgarion on January 11, 2009, 12:39:46 AM ---
Concerning your question about the Icement and the Marat. I suppose the Sea of Ice could be an inland sea but I've never gotten that impression. I'm not so sure that the Marat don't have aquatic transport, since Kitai didn't get sick on the voyages like Tavi did. That doesn't prove or disprove anything, just a thought. Sorry about the double negatives. And yep, Kitai did use ropes made of Icemen hair. It's never been said whether they were acquired in trade or otherwise.
Mikey
--- End quote ---
Well, it involves assumptions in any direction you go. But there is more *evidence* for some things, rather than others.
1) There is mounting evidence that the Icemen and the Marat have access to each other and interact independently of Alera. Kitai uses Iceman hair ropes, and Doroga is (click to show/hide) evidently known and 'respected" by the Icemen. (I know its a spoiler forum, but the book's only been out a few weeks, so I'm just erring on the side of caution.)
2) Marat do *not* travel through Aleran lands...they certainly don't go over the Shieldwall. Prior to Second Calderon, there is no Marat/Aleran trade. Even if there were, there is certainly no Aleran/Icemen trade. Indirect trade/interaction therefore seems unlikely.
3) There is no *evidence* the Marat are a seafaring people. The only thing Kitai's lack of mentioned seasickness can really give reasonable evidence towards is the fact that Kitai continues to be "awesome".
In fact, speaking entirely speculatively, the Marat seem created in the nomadic plains-dweller mold, inseparable from their companion animals who present a number of problems for extended sea travel, *especially* in the case of Gargants. However Doroga got to (click to show/hide)the Iceman lands in PF with Walker, it seems somewhat *unlikely* it was on a boat. Given the general attitude towards Marat in Alera, the state of the border, some of the specific hostile attitudes demonstrated in PF, in particular Raucus' attitude even up to defiance of the crown, it seems *unlikely* that Doroga (click to show/hide)went over the Shield Wall to get to his appearance in PF.
The Icemen could be seafarers, but there is no *evidence* for that. Indeed, the fact that they seem to need to go over the shieldwall to assault the Alerans suggests they cannot or will not travel by sea.
In either case, open water travel in Carna is shown to be an extraordinarily dangerous affair, and by arrogant Human standards, both the Icemen and the Marat *seem* to be towards the primitive end of the spectrum. Again, this is pure subjectivity...there is no evidence one way or the other.
So, even if your first impression of the Sea of Ice wasn't such, there *Is* some evidence leaning towards a land connection between the "plains beyond Calderon" (Marat Territory), and the Icemen territory, most likely at the polar region. Since Calderon is clearly described as an Isthmus, or being beyond an isthmus, water must be on both sides, and an inland or landlocked sea is the only way to explain the northern water mass, that I can think of, if the northern watermass is indeed the "Sea of Ice" (which would tend to make sense). Making it an inland sea requires us to change our thinking a bit, but it then allows for several possibilities and interpretations of what we know so far without invalidating anything else, whereas no land connection tends to only leave us the option of believing a seafaring interaction that no evidence has been given for.
Also, because of the nature of the events in PF, I'm tempted to switch the position of Antillus and Phrygia, to make Antillus the region closest to the Icemen AND the Marat and make some things easier to visualize, unless your superior knowledge on the subject can point out why this shouldnt be the case. I havent put a fraction of the effort and thought into this that you have, and I was frustrated to find when I wanted to do a map, there was no official layout.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version