The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers

Can Hellfire be used without a Coin?

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groinkick:
I was going over the other topic and it got me thinking about the use of hellfire.  In the Dresdenverse it's reasonable to assume that hell is just another part of the NeverNever the same as Hades.  It's also likely that Harry was channeling energy from hell to create the fire.  He did this with Lash's help.  However could a wizard tap into this energy without a Coin though?  Or is it locked away from anyone using it that isn't allowed access? 

Or is the theory all wrong?  Could the hellfire just be the Fallen allowing Harry to tap into their power much like he's able to tap into his own Soul for soulfire?  Jim said that angel's are all soul basically so it could be that the Fallen's hellfire is just energy from a Fallen's life force or whatever they are.

Or is Hellfire just Soulfire that has been twisted by the Fallen which is why to balance the scales Uriel gave Harry Soulfire?


Anyways I was thinking that in a desperate situation someone like Harry could call upon hellfire so he can do serious damage without burning off his own soul.

nadia.skylark:

--- Quote ---In the Dresdenverse it's reasonable to assume that hell is just another part of the NeverNever the same as Hades.  It's also likely that Harry was channeling energy from hell to create the fire.  He did this with Lash's help.  However could a wizard tap into this energy without a Coin though?  Or is it locked away from anyone using it that isn't allowed access?
--- End quote ---

This is a really cool concept! The idea of a piece of the Nevernever having magic like a ley line that people can draw on is really facinating.


--- Quote ---Or is the theory all wrong?  Could the hellfire just be the Fallen allowing Harry to tap into their power much like he's able to tap into his own Soul for soulfire?  Jim said that angel's are all soul basically so it could be that the Fallen's hellfire is just energy from a Fallen's life force or whatever they are.
--- End quote ---

On the other hand, I think this is actually the truth. I know there's a WoJ that hellfire and soulfire are two sides of the same coin, and which one an angel uses is determined by what kind of angel they are.

Maybe it could be both? The Fallen could be boosting their own ability by drawing on the power of the land they settled in (like non-Fallen angels can probably draw on God's power for some things). Maybe this is why use of hellfire smells like brimstone.

Mr. Death:
Pretty sure it's explicit WOJ that everywhere exists somewhere in the Nevernever, including Hell.

And I see no reason the coins would be the only way for someone to access Hellfire. We already know that, for instance, Lucifer can provide it. It stands to reason that other demons and fallen angels not confined to coins could give someone access, for a price.

Bad Alias:
I'm of the opinion that Hellfire and Soulfire are both "soul energy." So they have to come from a soul. That could be an angel's or a mortal's. So, in theory, Harry could use Hellfire.


--- Quote from: nadia.skylark on February 21, 2019, 03:59:00 AM ---I know there's a WoJ that hellfire and soulfire are two sides of the same coin, and which one an angel uses is determined by what kind of angel they are.
--- End quote ---

I recall this WoJ, and it leads me to think that one is inherently good and one inherently evil.

Talby16:
I think of all the examples of a mortal bartering with a greater authority/power/creature/etc for access to greater power. We have already seen Harry summon a demon a make a deal for information. I see no reason why a mortal wizard couldn't summon a demon or other creature with access and make a deal for access to Hellfire absent the coins.

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