The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Did Michael lie?
Mr. Death:
--- Quote from: nadia.skylark on February 26, 2019, 06:16:23 PM ---So why did Michael believe that Harry giving up magic would get rid of the shadow, what changed his mind, and why didn't he tell Harry? (And please don't say "because God said so"--I'm well aware of the possibility, it just annoys me so I'm disregarding it.)
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Reread the explanations we've been giving for the last several pages, then. I don't see any reason to keep asking a question that several people have plausibly and competently answered already.
And a quick check of the thread, I'm not finding anyone who said "because God said so," so I don't see a reason you have to gripe about that, either.
nadia.skylark:
--- Quote ---Reread the explanations we've been giving for the last several pages, then. I don't see any reason to keep asking a question that several people have plausibly and competently answered already.
--- End quote ---
Fair enough. There have been answers for the first two questions posted. However, I've never seen an answer to the question of why Michael didn't tell Harry, and until I see a good one I'm going to continue claiming that it's a lie of omission. (The other questions were posted purely because I though the answers might change based on what explanations people thought of for the last question.)
Mr. Death:
--- Quote from: nadia.skylark on February 26, 2019, 06:27:55 PM ---Fair enough. There have been answers for the first two questions posted. However, I've never seen an answer to the question of why Michael didn't tell Harry, and until I see a good one I'm going to continue claiming that it's a lie of omission. (The other questions were posted purely because I though the answers might change based on what explanations people thought of for the last question.)
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Michael doesn't have to explain every individual step of his thought process -- most people don't, after all -- and Harry never asks. There's no reason for Michael to stop and go through all his thoughts.
Not walking through every step of his thought process is definitely not a "lie of omission," otherwise Harry is guilty of that to literally everbody he's ever interacted with.
nadia.skylark:
--- Quote ---Michael doesn't have to explain every individual step of his thought process -- most people don't, after all -- and Harry never asks. There's no reason for Michael to stop and go through all his thoughts.
Not walking through every step of his thought process is definitely not a "lie of omission," otherwise Harry is guilty of that to literally everbody he's ever interacted with.
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To quote some of my posts upthread:
--- Quote ---
--- Quote ---People can change their mind.
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(about Michael contradicting himself)
True, but... you'd think he'd say something to Harry before Harry forced the situation. I mean, it is his job to make sure people know the truth about the Fallen, after all.
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--- Quote ---I mean, what happens if Harry goes through with it, gives up his powers, and still has the shadow? Is he just going to be fine with it? Given that Harry uses his powers to protect people (and based on the books, it is entirely likely that Harry would have to deal with innocent people dying because he refuses to use his power to save them) I think if he realized that Michael had lied to him he would be far more likely to disregard everything that Michael says/has said...and given that Harry still has Lasciel's shadow...
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--- Quote ---Suggested reasons for Michael to lie to Harry is ... that he was initially mistaken and did not correct his statement later because doing so risked encouraging Harry to take up Lasciel's coin.
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--- Quote ---Even if he sincerely believed the first statement and later found out that he was wrong, I find the assumption that telling this to Harry just slipped his mind to be utterly untenable--in which case it was a deliberate omission intended to leave Harry with misinformation. That's not technically a lie, granted (it's something the fae could do) but I think it's equivalent.
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--- Quote ---He never bothered to tell Harry that he was mistaken, even though, as I pointed out earlier, the consequences of Harry following through on it if it were false are potentially disastrous.
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This is why I believe Michael not telling Harry before Harry forced the situation was a lie of omission. It has nothing to do with "explaining every individual step of his thought process"--it is because the consequences of Michael not explaining to Harry were potentially disastrous, and were specifically disastrous such that it was Michael's job as a KotC to try to prevent them, and that due to this I can't believe that it simply didn't occur to Michael to tell Harry: thus, by definition, he was deliberately not sharing that information.
I can't think of another explanation. If you can, however, please say so.
Mr. Death:
The only basis for this "lie" that I can see is the unsupported assertion that Michael must have -- factually and accurately -- learned that giving up magic cannot in fact get rid of the Shadow.
There is, frankly, no reason to make this assertion. You're really making this more complicated than it needs to be.
In the first, Michael tells Harry that the only way he knows to get rid of the Shadow is to give up his magic.
Harry doesn't give up his magic. Ergo, the one way that Michael knows of to get rid of the Shadow is obviously not in play. They both know this.
So later, when Michael says nobody's ever gotten rid of the Shadow, he says that including, by implication, the thing he said before because he knows it is pointless to bring up.
Harry hasn't given up his magic and isn't going to give up his magic, so Michael has no reason to retread a thing that he knows is not on the table.
There's no lie of omission. There's just Michael not bringing up something that is pointless to bring up.
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