The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Any news on Peace Talks
Dina:
--- Quote from: morriswalters on December 10, 2019, 02:54:58 PM ---The medical symbol is the Caduceus, not a cross. And the Red Cross is symbolic of the Swiss Flag where the International Red Cross was founded. The cross is a symbol of the crucifix, wherein the three nails affixed to the swords are thought to be from. And since the rules expressly forbid taking this any further I'll stop.
I hope Butter's story line works out. Jim can't unwrite it.
--- End quote ---
Well, most of us are ok with Butter's story. And you don't need to patronize me. You know what I meant. If you see a box with a red cross in most places in the world you don't think inside you will find a bible and holy water, you know there is a first aid kit with gauze, band aids and other things you use to heal. That is why I said that I know the origin is the Christian symbol but now it stands for medicine.
Fcrate:
I don't like Butters' upgrade, however, I think that Jim needed it to consolidate more power firmly in Harry's corner as the challenges get tougher and the fights become on a larger scale. It seems unlikely to me that he'll ever be a knight on par with Sanya or Michael, but a little upgrade in addition to his smarts are good enough for him to become a valuable ally instead of a fun character that patches up corpses, and on occasion Harry.
Yuillegan:
--- Quote from: dspringer1 on December 10, 2019, 04:54:05 PM ---This was explained in one of the books. The power of the knights (or the swords if you like) is not fixed. Their purpose is to balance the scales so that human skill, will and morality will decide the battle, not supernatural power. So if the knight needs to fight two vampires, you get power X. If the knight needs to battle a frigging dragon, he gets power 5X.
I suspect there is a range of possible power. A knight can probably easily kill any normal vampire 1-1, so there seems to be a minimum power level. And the top end a knight can channel also appears to be limited. Murphy was apparently a VERY powerful knight in Changes, while Sanya appears to be of more typical Knight power. And even Murphy and Sanya together were insufficient to beat all the vampires in that last battle. Not even close.
--- End quote ---
It was explained somewhat in the books, in a rather vague way. Never so clearly as the Swords balance the fight. If anything, the closest explanation is it gives the Knight a chance of victory, which is incredible enough anyway but not the same as matching the foe.
If it really does in fact make the knights power up to a certain level, based on the enemy in front of them, then why were three Knights needed to take on Ursiel? As I say I think it gives them a chance, which is good, but if you want to maximise your chances you have as much help as you can get.
I also am not so taken with the idea that some Knights are greater in power than others. True, some Knights are more talented and skilled warriors than others - Shiro was clearly the most dangerous warrior early on. But the true purpose of the Knights is not as mere swordsmen, but as saviours and guardians. They are meant to help. I do think the character of Sanya is constantly weirdly nerfed by Jim - he is often clumsy, hardly a tornado of warrior power, and rarely seems to go toe-to-toe with any villain on his own. Is this because he is agnostic? I can't imagine so as Shiro ascribed to multiple belief systems and Butters is Jewish! I think it is more down to poor character development and being overshadowed in pivotal scenes by other characters. Also, I think if Murphy and Sanya were meant to beat all those Vampires they would have. I think that is precisely how their game works.
morriswalters:
--- Quote from: Dina on December 10, 2019, 10:13:13 PM ---Well, most of us are ok with Butter's story. And you don't need to patronize me.
--- End quote ---
I'm sorry that you took it that way.
Any reading of Changes suggesting that the Knights balanced the table at Chechen Itza seems a little nearsighted. Harry is shitting kittens thinking he has led his allies to their deaths. Had the Knights been able to run the table, Susan needn't have died. Harry killed every vampire everywhere. god was late to the game and purely local.
As an extra added attraction for the Butter's story line he had to mug Murphy, again. She is apparently Jim's torture doll. While Butters was carving the dead Murphy got mind raped. Lost her career and got demoted. Got dumped at the boat and abandoned in place to cope with the Fomor and the White Vamps. And got a bad knee and a rep as a sword breaker. Kincaid broke her arm, but at least he showed her a good time. Oh yeah and she got puppeted by an angel. She deserved a larger cut of the diamonds. And the sword.
Bad Alias:
--- Quote from: morriswalters on December 08, 2019, 04:07:52 AM ---When I was young lurid book covers worked as well as anything.
...
@Bad Alias
One of the better things about the books is that Jim will retcon if it makes the story stronger. Keeping too much technology out kills the story.
--- End quote ---
I didn't read a book once because of it's ridiculous cover art. Years later, my brother highly recommended the book. I ended up loving it.
Agreed. And he usually manages to do it well enough that the inconsistency can be explained away.
On Butters and such. I always assumed Shiro was Shinto. Death Masks doesn't specifically mention what religion he was before he "converted." Shiro serves "Heaven. Or the divine in nature. The memory of my fathers past. My fellow man. Myself. All pieces of the same thing."
Sanya isn't an atheist. He's a Trotskiest. "Because it must be done. ... For the good of the people, some must place themselves in harm's way. some must pledge their courage and their lives to protect the community." That's what he believes in.
I don't know what kind of Jew Butters is. There are a lot of atheist Jews and a lot of pious Jews, but Butters faith is in stories.
--- Quote ---Uriel: I must admit I never foresaw that particular form of faith being expressed under my purview.
Harry: Belief in a freaking movie?
Uriel: Belief in a story, of good confronting evil, of light overcoming darkness, of love transcending hate. Isn't that where all faith begins?
Harry: Huh. Lot of Star Wars fans out there. Maybe more Star Wars fans than Catholics.
Uriel: I liked the music.
--- End quote ---
For the Knights, it isn't about what religion they are; it's not about faces, skin, flags, membership lists, files. "God sees hearts." It's about what they believe in.
With that context, it would make sense for Butters to where a red cross. The imagery of a knight would appeal to Butters.
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