The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers

Cowl and Kumori are...

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Yuillegan:
morriswalters - I hope I haven't caused you offense. Perhaps we will discuss it further one day. And by "all of the fey" you mean some I think...at that particular battle several characters and creatures were described specifically using other weapons (e.g trolls with clubs, fey with spears, Winter Lady and Queen etc.) But really we are talking about humans, not creatures of magic. Specifically Wizards - who largely rely on magic for combat. My memory of the humans that use swords are (the 4 knights of the cross - butters only technically, Nicodemus himself - I don't recall ANY other Denarians using swords as most rely on their Fallen's monster form, Lloyd Slate and Fix - as Winter and Summer Knight respectively) But most don't (the Denarian squires use guns, Kincaid doesn't use any swords - though he isn't strictly speaking human, none of the cops other than Murphy, None of the Black Court Vampires, only some of the Reds - they also use obsidian axes and blades rather than traditional swords, the White Court Vampires do - but they also use guns and explosives just as much and are considered the most modern of the Vampire Courts, Charity uses hammers, Molly doesn't use swords, none of the priests, not Marcone or his people apart from Gard who is probably a Valkyrie etc.)

Harry likely learned fencing like everyone else does - in a class. Fencing classes are everywhere. But the only teach fencing as a sport, anyone old school (like Morgan or Luccio or Grevane etc.) would have learned it not for sport but for defense. Warden's likely learn it from each other. He has fought twice I believe as he normally likes to express Earth Magic through his sword cane - primarily electromagnetism. He has used the blade though, I will have a search around for the text. But he does it rarely, as like most wizards he relies heavily on magic in combat. Sword users that have been described, especially humans are in the minority in the series. Don't get me wrong, I love sword fights and duels. Great stuff to watch, I have seen many acted out and been to many fencing competitions not to mention watching many online. I have actually seen the JB proposal which was very sweet. But none of this means that Swords are common to humans (especially magic humans) in the series.

Maz - I think you are confusing Harry piercing veils with magic and his powers of deduction. He recognised Talos and Korrick through process of elimination (he knew Auror was behind the theft of power, meaning her people would be the one's with her but he didn't "see through" the veils sphysically. He would have had to use his Sight). I believe in the Mavra case you are referring to is when he first meets her at Bianca's ball. In that case he used his magical "sense" to work out where an invisible person was - but again did not "see" through the veil. He would have had to call upon his Sight. Which he does to Ariana during the duel with her - but any practitioner with the Sight could do such a thing. It is hardly unique to Harry. He is frequently missing veils actually (Cowl and Kumori snuck up on him, Elaine and Korrick catch him straight off guard despite almost being on top of him, Martha Liberty was only feet from him an Ebenezar yet he wasn't even slightly aware of her and Listen's to Wind etc.)

Would you recognise her? Even with a physical disguise that obscured her body shape and face, and a magic voice distorter?  Its conjecture anyway. The fact is Harry does not recognise Kumori. We can only speculate as to why. Perhaps he wouldn't recognise Faith or Jenny after so many years even without all the other disguises, but we cannot know this. And likely if Faith, Jenny and Elaine were all in a room with him wearing a simple mask he probably would only recognise Elaine if anyone. Because of how well he knows her. But if Elaine were Kumori, all the more reason to hide every recognisable part of herself. You don't argue the impact of Elaine, but we do have the facts that support Elaine over the other two (including that the reveal of Kumori will hurt Harry alot) and yet as I understand your argument to be it couldn't be Elaine because Harry is hyper-observant. But if Kumori's disguise trumps Harry's observational skills then your only reason that it couldn't be Elaine falls apart. Realistically if you were a detective trying to work out who Kumori was would you pick the person who most fit the facts or pick a person who might fit one or two of the facts? Does it really stretch belief that it was Elaine in front of him the whole time in disguise? It is a common trope. Not to mention, it actually happened already with Elaine in Summer Knight. She was with the villains from the start yet he couldn't see it at all. Harry has a huge blind spot when it comes to women, especially in the earlier books and especially ones who seem vulnerable. It is constantly used against him.

Raidem - Ah yes I remember that theory. It would be an excellent betrayal. However as we don't yet know how time travel works in the series, it is still a bit of a long shot. Remember Vadderung says that it is difficult and extremely dangerous to mess with the past - not to mention the Law of Conservation of History (as Harry calls it - the effect Odin describes is that events in the past tend to happen always the same way as there is a quality similar to inertia at work). However I could see it being regular old Maggie Snr who has transcended her Death.
I haven't yet read the Amber Chronicles - it is on my to-do list - but in Amber is the lady that returns a significant character? And does is her return a major plot point? Does it have a long lasting effect on the main character? Was there a lot of foreshadowing? And same applies to the girlfriend. And by "bad actor" do you mean villain or is that a specific type of being or class that exists in the Amber Chronicles?

morriswalters:

--- Quote ---I hope I haven't caused you offense.
--- End quote ---
Not in the least,  It's a complex topic and would require more work than I am prepared to expend.  Not to mention most people wouldn't be interested.

Gard mostly uses a battle axe. The original question was
--- Quote ---Why would Cowl have a sword?
--- End quote ---
To which I now answer, because he thinks he needs it.  That and JB likes LARPing with swords. ;)

Maz:
I don't think any amount of evidence will convince you so I'll just provide some additional examples and then call it quits as this seems more WAGish to me than plausible/probable.

Harry saw through Elaine's veil /EVENTUALLY/ when she was assisting the circle.  Yes, it did take significant introspection and assistance but it happened there.

Harry saw through one of Molly's veils and stated to her and similarly in discussion with Bob regarding potions, its harder to hide from multiple senses.  Something, a smell, the way they walk, their mode of speech, etc, would probably show up. 

If an all encompassing uberveil were in place, I don't think Cowl and Kumori would bother with the hoods.  Additionally, maintaining it would deplete them of /some/ amount of power.  Judging by what was going on, I don't think that would have been a good game plan for them.   Now, they could be doing it... but for the same reason you wouldn't break your word when sworn on your power - wizards scrimp and scrape for every advantage and scrap of power and based on what we know of Molly, it would take significant effort to maintain such an elaborate, all encompassing veil.  Perhaps they managed an efficient foci of some sort to assist and relieve significant amounts of power draw but that's wild speculation on my part in order to make the thesis more plausible.

Well, I'm certain some time in the next decade we will have our answer has to who they are and I look forward to seeing it then.

KipIngram:

--- Quote from: Yuillegan on October 21, 2018, 01:09:32 AM ---Cowl is Justin and Elaine is Kumori. Time to drag out this old theory again.

Cowl:
18. If Justin is dead, why no Death Curse?

--- End quote ---

Oh, very good point...  I realize casting the DC isn't "automatic," but still - someone as experienced as Justin?  You'd think he'd have gotten that in.

Yuillegan:

--- Quote from: morriswalters on October 25, 2018, 01:51:21 AM ---Not in the least,  It's a complex topic and would require more work than I am prepared to expend.  Not to mention most people wouldn't be interested.
Gard mostly uses a battle axe. The original question wasTo which I now answer, because he thinks he needs it.  That and JB likes LARPing with swords. ;)

--- End quote ---

Very understandable, I would be interested though. Another time then :) I think anyone in the DFU who chooses to carry a sword that is not ceremonial likely needs it - but why Cowl would need it, or choose to use one is more my line of query. I don't think it is a throwaway reason because JB like LARPing - which is true enough but not the main reason Cowl has one. But perhaps not as I say it is all just speculation.

Maz - not so, if you had examples from the text to support your view I would be more inclinded to agree. For instance the passage you quote is thus


--- Quote ---What unicorn?
I gnawed over the question. If it was indeed a statement of importance, not just a passing mutter, then it
had to mean something.
I frowned. It meant that there hadn'tbeen a guardian around the little cottage. Or at least not one Mother
Winter had put there.
So who had?
The answer hit me low in the gut, a sensation of physical sickness coming along with the realization. I
stopped and clawed for my Sight.
I didn't get to it before Grum came out from under a veil, Elaine standing close behind him. He caught
me flat-footed. The ogre drove a sledgehammer fist toward my face. There was a flash of impact, a
sensation of falling, and cool earth beneath my cheek.
--- End quote ---

Dresden reached for his sight - he missed Grum (Talos) under the veil. It doesn't explicitly state that Elaine was under a veil, and while you could argue it might be implied, he doesn't see through her veil either. She wasn't even under a veil assisting the circle, the only time she might have been is just before Grum whacked him. If it were that easy to see through veils and recognise persons, no one would use them. Dresden might not be very good at veils (though his skill is highly inconsistent throughout the series), doesn't mean others arn't.


--- Quote ---"Why call him Grum?" I said, scowling at the ogre. "You might as well drop the glamour, Lord Marshal.
There's not much point to it now."
The ogre's face twisted with surprise.
I glared spitefully at the dark unicorn and spat, "You too, Korrick."
Both ogre and unicorn glanced at Aurora. The Faerie Queen never took her eyes off me, but nodded.
The ogre's form blurred and twisted, and resolved itself into the form of Talos, the Sidhe lord from
Aurora's penthouse at the Rothchild. His pale hair had been drawn back into a fighting braid, and he
wore close-fit mail of some glittering black metal that made him look rail-thin and deadly.
At the same time the unicorn shook itself and rose up into the hulking form of Korrick, the centaur, also
dressed in mail and bearing weapons of faerie make. He stamped one huge hoof and said nothing.
Aurora walked in a circle around me, frowning. "How long have you known, wizard?"
I shrugged. "Not long. I started getting it on the way out of Mother Winter's cottage. Once I knew
where to start, it wasn't hard to start adding up the numbers."
--- End quote ---

This is the other passage you refer to. Again - he doesn't "see through" anyone's veil. He used deductive reasoning to figure out who they were. But only after the fact mind you, with some special help from Mother Winter's hint. If he were so good normally, why did he only figure it out when they were all together. Bearing in mind he had not seen Grum, the Unicorn and Auror all together (he had seen them unveiled on the Rothschild tower - but he hadn't yet put it together).

As for uber-veils...you are correct in saying that if Cowl and Kumori could do them they wouldn't need physical disguises and that it is implausible and quite impractical to power and use such a veil for a mortal. However I never said they could or would. I was discussing the possibility of hiding their voices and their magic. They don't need to hide their faces or body shapes, the clothes do that well enough. As for smell - you wouldn't even need a spell. Easy enough to use more mundane methods like perfumes. Harry himself even makes a potion if I recall for himself or Susan to make him vaguely odorless. As for their behavior (speech patterns and idioms, walking style etc) I don't think they would need magic to influence that. They haven't spoken a great deal to him anyway, but after many years Dresden might not recall every intricacy of their behaviour. Not to mention if they were actively trying to conceal such things from him - any actor or spy worth their salt could do that.

Yes time will tell, it always does. But I don't think Dresden's deductive abilities actively disprove my theory. Unless you have a better example of him recognising someone or thing in the series who was actively disguising themselves from him - without him using the Sight.

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