The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Molly
forumghost:
That's the soul, not free will. Does Mab have a soul? Maybe a shadow of one. Does she have Free Will? No. Same with Molly, except she hasn't been Sidhe for as long so her soul isn't shriveled like a prune yet.
peregrine:
Except that he's saying they're the same thing. A soul is what allows you to go against your Nature. Without it, you have no Free Will with which to override your Nature.
Arjan:
--- Quote from: Mr. Death on October 30, 2018, 12:47:08 AM ---Like I said -- it was a choice. Bad choices are still choices, and if Molly had decided to tell Harry to screw off, there isn't anything he could have done to make her take his tutelage.
And if Molly is staying at the BFS building, which has a threshold and a crapload of Einherjar to defend the place? Or if she's staying at her parents' house, and replace the Einherjar with angels? She could only "force" Molly to do anything because Molly eliminated her other choices herself.
The other thing? As Harry points out, among the obligations Lea took on from Harry are to protect and take care of Molly, which is why I think she'd hold back from actually killing her or bringing her real harm.
You are talking about choices Lea gave Molly:
And Molly is smart enough? When she's half brain-fried from malnutrition and she's on the Self-Flagellation Express? Molly post Changes is very much not a Molly who's in charge of all her critical thinking and objective, rational thought faculties.
She's not calmly laying out all her options and rationally deciding on the best course of action. She's crippled with guilt because she just murdered the man she loves and she probably feels like she deserves all the crap Lea puts on her.
Remember the part about how the Fomor are only a big presence in Chicago because there isn't a White Council presence? Seriously, that's a whole thing, that things are so bad because there aren't wizards there, and the one that bothers showing up is Carlos.
Yeah, it's not like Mab sets the tone for her kingdom, or like Lea is explicitly taking Mab's role for the sake of acting in Mab's place the way Mab would or anything.
Mab isn't unique in that respect. That's what all faeries do, it's how they get you into those deals.
I mean, let's look at Lea herself. Her "deal" with Harry to give him power to beat HWWB... which amounted to a magic feather and getting Harry to swear to give himself over to her. Harry absolutely had a choice there, considering Lea's "help" didn't actually do anything tangible, but she certainly didn't put it that way, now did she?
Yeah. They weren't telling her she had any options, so in her guilt-riddled mind, she assumed there weren't any, or explicitly rejected the ones she was aware of.
Yes, like opening up to her friends and allies and seeking shelter from people not grooming her for a job that will eventually eat away at her soul.
Choices that she has, but doesn't realize she has or has rejected because she's racked with guilt.
Again: I'd like to see her try it when Molly's at the BFS or her parents' house.
Mab was bound to her vassal's obligations.
If Molly walks away and declares she's no longer Harry's apprentice, it's no longer Mab's obligation. Molly is an adult with free will, and she absolutely has other choices besides starving, sleeping in the snow and letting Lea throw knives at her.
She's just not in a place where she sees those choices, and Lea is not going to go out of her way to let her newest plaything think she actually has a choice in the matter.
--- End quote ---
The idea that Molly can cust end her apprenticeship is false, she would be just the apprentice who ran away and Harry would be obliged to run after her and kill her as a warlock or bring her back to him. Suicidal choices are free willed choices but I do not expect people to go for them.
Molly could have visited her friends more than she did probably but staying with them was not smart. The white council is not a unified block and some of them have different ways of looking and Carlos looking away would have become difficult if he got specific information.
The angelic guards would not and the bff could not defend against a group of wardens.
And when Molly started training with Lea Winter Lady was not the most likely outcome she could have expected. It was not what Mab had planned.
morriswalters:
--- Quote ---The angelic guards would not and the bff could not defend against a group of wardens.
--- End quote ---
Yep. I don't know that the bff would protect Molly, why would they? Marcone pays them and he is a signatory of the accords, if the council asks he would have to give her up. And Molly would be safe at home only in the sense that a prisoner on death row is safe from street crime. Assuming she still shares in the angelic protection as an adult. And the council needn't act directly to find her. They can do what they did for Morgan. Put a bounty on her. If they want her they will keep coming until they get her. You could almost call them the spooky FBI. Who never stop looking.
I really don't know what the angelic guards are good for. Except for sounding "cool". As close as I can figure it all they do is keep the fallen from acting directly. That fight at the house was pretty dramatic. But Nick should have called in a drone strike. To paraphrase a paraphrase, it was the only way to be sure. And the angels wouldn't have done anything.(You might guess I am rereading PG) :)
Arjan:
--- Quote from: morriswalters on October 30, 2018, 11:18:23 AM ---Yep. I don't know that the bff would protect Molly, why would they? Marcone pays them and he is a signatory of the accords, if the council asks he would have to give her up. And Molly would be safe at home only in the sense that a prisoner on death row is safe from street crime. Assuming she still shares in the angelic protection as an adult. And the council needn't act directly to find her. They can do what they did for Morgan. Put a bounty on her. If they want her they will keep coming until they get her. You could almost call them the spooky FBI. Who never stop looking.
I really don't know what the angelic guards are good for. Except for sounding "cool". As close as I can figure it all they do is keep the fallen from acting directly. That fight at the house was pretty dramatic. But Nick should have called in a drone strike. To paraphrase a paraphrase, it was the only way to be sure. And the angels wouldn't have done anything.(You might guess I am rereading PG) :)
--- End quote ---
Cool is very important. See them as Michael's honor guard.
Molly takes care of the real protection now ;D
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