The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Did Maggie REALLY curse Raith?
groinkick:
I was just thinking of a couple of things from the books, possibly clues that maybe Maggie didn't actually curse Raith... The clues are more like things that were dropped in the book so that a reader can say "OH I see so Jim didn't just trick us, there was actual evidence in earlier books".
Ok these are just small clues, and idea for discussion.
Clue #1. Leah can subdue vampire demons. Leah was able to put Red Court vamp demons to sleep. Harry wanted to learn it but she said it would cost him for that kind of information.
Clue #2. Cowl can block a death curse. Harry was told that Cowl had blocked a death curse before by Kumori
So here is my little theory. Maggie didn't use a death curse on Raith. She made a deal with Leah to punish Lord Raith (We learned from Mab's example that Sidhe take their time with drawing out their punishment). She used her death curse on Cowl who was able to defend himself against it. In a way this makes some sense. Raith can tap into the demon's power but because it's "asleep" it cannot feed. I think Leah would take great delight in watching him slowly go mad over time.
peregrine:
Raith certainly thought that killing Thomas and Harry would break his curse, not something likely to be the case with Leah being the one who did it.
Plus, the Red Court style need not be the same as White, and if his demon was asleep, I doubt Raith would be able to draw anything from it. When Leah did it to Susan and Martin, they were entirely knocked out, and that was when they weren't even fully vampire. Something as closely bound as a WCV, I doubt he'd be up and active.
Also, what reason would Maggie have to throw her curse at Cowl? Or rather, other than the fact that he survived one suggests that he was the target vs the far more likely culprit?
groinkick:
--- Quote from: peregrine on September 25, 2018, 05:42:27 PM ---Raith certainly thought that killing Thomas and Harry would break his curse, not something likely to be the case with Leah being the one who did it.
--- End quote ---
Well just as Harry has been wrong within the stories Raith may also be.
--- Quote ---Plus, the Red Court style need not be the same as White, and if his demon was asleep, I doubt Raith would be able to draw anything from it. When Leah did it to Susan and Martin, they were entirely knocked out, and that was when they weren't even fully vampire. Something as closely bound as a WCV, I doubt he'd be up and active.
--- End quote ---
She proved she had control over such a demon. She may, or may not be able to manipulate how much she effects them.
--- Quote ---Also, what reason would Maggie have to throw her curse at Cowl? Or rather, other than the fact that he survived one suggests that he was the target vs the far more likely culprit?
--- End quote ---
We don't know who Cowl is yet so it's hard to determine what her reasons could be. I could be mistaken but Maggie along with Raith, and it appeared the Red Court, and Maggie wanted Eb to be involved with something big. Not too big of a stretch for Cowl to have been involved Either that or Maggie knew of the Black Council and targeted Cowl because he was a big threat even back then. The only thing we know is he defended himself from a Death Curse.
forumghost:
I mean:
--- Quote ---What death curses are able to do? How powerful can they be? Why don’t more wizards just use die as their curse? Its short and kills your killer.
They sometimes do. :) See what happened to all the vampires around Simon when they assaulted his compound immediately prior to the onstage events in Summer Knight.
However, while taking your killer down with you might be the most immediately gratifying thing to do with a death curse (assuming that they haven’t up and prepared to defend against that kind of magical retaliation, which only a real moron *wouldn’t* do if they knew they were off to murder a wizard), it might not be the SMARTEST thing you could do with it. Still, magic in the Dresden universe is only as formidable as a wizard’s imagination can make it.
I mean, Maggie’s death curse on Raith did /more/ than render him virtually powerless. It freaking crippled the entire White Court by rendering its head executive suddenly unwilling to get aggressive. It took that same executive’s focus and warped it from an outwardly-oriented expansionist agenda (What, did you really think Raith just bumped into Maggie at a /bar/ somewhere?) to one of frantic power-defense, paranoia, and infighting. Had she merely killed Raith, another vampire much like him would simply have stepped into his shoes. Instead, her curse sandbagged the entire White Court for two or three /decades/.
It isn’t until the events of White Night that the White Court really begins to . . .
. . .but perhaps I’ve said too much. ::)
Anyway, Maggie’s curse, of course, also made Raith suffer. Horribly. It made him live in a constant state of drug-withdrawal-level hunger, and fear, and eventually reduced him to outright slavery to someone with centuries of comeuppance to dish out. But that was just icing on the cake.
Jim
--- End quote ---
WoJ is that she did, so it's not just a 'character x is mistaken' thing. Unless of course you want to pull the "Jim is Lying about Everything" card, but if that's the case then you can argue literally anything, so...
I mean, the fact that Lea is able to affect a Red Court Infected's demon doesn't prove that she can affect a White Court's Demon, because they're completely different Species. That's like suggesting because Whales and Plankton both live in the Sea they're both the same.
As for Cowl, knowing that he survived a death curse shows nothing. He's one of Kemmler's disciples and a couple-hundred-years-old Wizard. He's almost certainly been hit by multiple death Curses in his time.
Hell, even Harry got hit by one before (Granted one cast by a scrublord). In the end a Death Curse is just a spell with extra juju behind it after all, it's not impossible to survive really.
groinkick:
--- Quote from: forumghost on September 26, 2018, 04:52:16 AM ---Hell, even Harry got hit by one before (Granted one cast by a scrublord). In the end a Death Curse is just a spell with extra juju behind it after all, it's not impossible to survive really.
--- End quote ---
The curse Harry was hit by wasn't meant to kill him. Just to "die alone". I doubt very many if any on the Council have actually blocked a death curse. What's the point of a weapon like that if it's not nearly unstoppable? Up to that point in the series Harry had indicated that anyone that had a death curse pointed at them was toast.
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