The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers

Molly and the guy in black

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Mr. Death:

--- Quote from: Wizard Sibelis on July 10, 2018, 03:40:20 PM ---actually his friends opinion of him matters a lot, and that whole know since she was a child thing really went away with the growing up... the mantle is only making his own thoughts louder there.
--- End quote ---
He's accepted she's a woman, but he has not expressed any change in opinion on the prospects of romance between them, so for the moment we can assume his other objections still stand -- i.e., he's still like 20 years older than her and basically her teacher, so, ew.

--- Quote ---Physically? The Ladies mantle don't seem to do a whole lot besides extra grace/speed. And Harry in his WK persona made this claim on a knowing level, not some two bit guess, couple that with the fact the defense mechanism is a bersker aspect and my claim stands.
--- End quote ---
A brief cutaway in which we saw none of the action is not a basis to claim that the entirety of the defense mechanism is solely physical berserker action.

We've seen what the Ladies can do, and the power they wield is well above what the Knight can. Molly casually freezes an entire church building in a split second in Cold Case. Her power is obviously, significantly amplified.

Look at the climax (ha HA) in Cold Days -- what's Maeve's play to stop Dresden at the end? Seduce him. Do you really think her plan would be, "Entice the Winter Knight to have his way with me," if she thought he could simply overpower her physically? Of anyone, Maeve would have had a pretty solid idea of her own limits versus those of the Knight, and she deliberately drew Harry in like that.

Ergo, Maeve was pretty damned confident that -- even in his nigh-berserker rape-beast mindset -- she could take Harry.


--- Quote ---A. willing participant, see their shared dream.(go ahead and try to claim either one of them don't do bondage and kink)
--- End quote ---
If she's flying into a berserker rage and trying to maim him, she is no longer a willing participant. You've heard of "no means no"? Well, breaking someone's back and mauling them with claws also means "no," generally speaking.


--- Quote ---B. Can't tear apart what you can't escape.
--- End quote ---
That ... doesn't make any sense. We're not talking about her "escaping" Harry (and, again, "escaping" implies she doesn't want to do this), and she won't have to "escape" him. She didn't "escape" Carlos -- she just horribly maimed him.

I mean, do you realize that what you're saying here amounts to, "Nah, it'll be OK, Harry is strong enough to force himself on Molly no matter how she physically protests and fights back"?

Doesn't that seem kind of wrong to you?

jbmdw45:

--- Quote from: Mr. Death on July 10, 2018, 02:00:46 PM ---It probably has more to do with her own mantle. Read Cold Case -- in it, we learn that like with the Winter Knight, the Winter Lady's libido gets a big shot in the arm.

*snip*

So basically, don't necessarily assume it's because Molly is comfortable hitting on Dresden, because chances are it's The Winter Lady being comfortable hitting on The Winter Knight.

--- End quote ---

I don't think it has to be an either/or thing, and there are external factors too like her increased self-confidence (which shows in her interactions with Harry much earlier, during the dream sequence). But "libido" isn't the vibe I was getting from Molly at the end. It was "warmth", and I don't think that's a Winter thing per se.

More to the point, if the guy in black is going out of his way to tell Harry to seduce Molly, do you think he's going to pass up the opportunity when he gets the chance to interact with Molly directly? No way. I don't know exactly what he would have said to her but I'm sure she would come out of that interaction feeling special and closer to Harry than before.

jbmdw45:

--- Quote from: Wizard Sibelis on July 10, 2018, 03:40:20 PM ---Physically? The Ladies mantle don't seem to do a whole lot besides extra grace/speed.
--- End quote ---

IIRC she does "draw upon Winter" right before she kicks a door (explosively?) off its hinges in the short story "Cold Case." Seems clear that she can be mighty when she wants to now.

The side effects are interesting too. (Laughing maniacally at death and destruction, and being vaguely bothered that she wasn't more bothered by it.) I think she will deal okay with it, just like Harry has, but we'll see.

Fcrate:
Didn't Maeve dislocate Slate's shoulder with one kick (while remaining seated) in summer knight?
And another thing. Why does Butters and Harry himself) keep thinking that Harry got no real power boost from becoming the winter knight? I mean, we actually never see any significant change in his power level. Fix had no talent before becoming the summer knight, but after that he had enough juice to challenge Harry, and actually be reasonable threat to him.

Wizard Sibelis:

--- Quote from: Mr. Death on July 10, 2018, 04:08:55 PM --- He's accepted she's a woman, but he has not expressed any change in opinion on the prospects of romance between them, so for the moment we can assume his other objections still stand -- i.e., he's still like 20 years older than her and basically her teacher, so, ew.
--- End quote ---
Your opinion is not a deciding factor in a verse where that's the norm between master and apprentice opposites
--- Quote ---A brief cutaway in which we saw none of the action is not a basis to claim that the entirety of the defense mechanism is solely physical berserker action.
--- End quote ---
Mmm, and yet the lack of more than physical damage would mean the other side of the coin has less evidence in and of itself making the idea more valid anyway.


--- Quote ---We've seen what the Ladies can do, and the power they wield is well above what the Knight can. Molly casually freezes an entire church building in a split second in Cold Case. Her power is obviously, significantly amplified.
--- End quote ---
You do know what we're debating here?


--- Quote ---Look at the climax (ha HA) in Cold Days -- what's Maeve's play to stop Dresden at the end? Seduce him. Do you really think her plan would be, "Entice the Winter Knight to have his way with me," if she thought he could simply overpower her physically? Of anyone, Maeve would have had a pretty solid idea of her own limits versus those of the Knight, and she deliberately drew Harry in like that.

Ergo, Maeve was pretty damned confident that -- even in his nigh-berserker rape-beast mindset -- she could take Harry.
--- End quote ---
Her ploy was simply to separate the desires of the WK from Harry, which worked perfectly.

--- Quote ---If she's flying into a berserker rage and trying to maim him, she is no longer a willing participant. You've heard of "no means no"? Well, breaking someone's back and mauling them with claws also means "no," generally speaking.
--- End quote ---
and if she's trying to eat your face and kill you... this is a moot point, she's not the mantle, an if Harry knows her angst at all when it happens, then, like has happened before already, he'll follow the will of the person not the parasite trying to control them. *sigh* this is such a moot point I feel you just try to be contrary, at least argue because you believe it, not cause you wanna have one right...

--- Quote ---That ... doesn't make any sense. We're not talking about her "escaping" Harry (and, again, "escaping" implies she doesn't want to do this), and she won't have to "escape" him. She didn't "escape" Carlos -- she just horribly maimed him.

I mean, do you realize that what you're saying here amounts to, "Nah, it'll be OK, Harry is strong enough to force himself on Molly no matter how she physically protests and fights back"?

Doesn't that seem kind of wrong to you?

--- End quote ---
Na it will be ok, He'll be able to give Molly her true desire by leu of th WK being able to physically take the WL... which coincidently look at Maeve and Slates relationship.. Slates particular disposition after he's been on the job awhile... and ask yourself what motives Maeve had when choosing said Knight? It's in his syle of clothes, the way they present themselves as a duo in Sk, ect. they're 'fond' of each other in that crazy fae way.
( :o I just realized without starborn they're sterile, cause they cant' 'change' otherwise... sweet, this disposition worked out in my favor)

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