The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
The 5 gods of Lovecraft
jonas:
--- Quote from: groinkick on June 23, 2018, 06:09:16 PM ---Sorry, apples and oranges. The White Council is mortal wizards with rules, laws, and traditions built over thousands of years. The Grey Council is a covert group that was just thrown together with any allies they can find.
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You seriously think 13 is randomly going to pop up as the number when 13 wizards are the max to work on one spell? So we'll have 13... but you guys stand back while us seven work this mortal spellframe that you can't work on with us.... and the idea of the WC is kinda laughable to be put that way, they break their own rules, they have no idea why their laws actually exist, they really wouldn't have any clue to someone whose older then them, someone intentionally secretive, being anything but capable of mortal magic... Do you really think Odin is NOT? Because that's the only point that matters there, not if the council is aware or because they have traditions, can he pull off being a mortal wizard? Of course he can, the uncarved block has a mortal wizard in it. Just like Uriel having a human form under the Grace. The Grace being able to be separated so he becomes human shows a differentiation in totality. The mantle currently expressed being able to be changed so Odin can be fae or Aesir or his mortal guise beneath it? It's what GK's appearance is, his mortal formation before death, in some ways similar to Ferro eating a Centurion and ergo able to manifest just that tiny bit of himself. It's his "knight' without separation from person, just identity. Like if MW had her Stick she'd be Baba Yaga with her Mortar and pestle, go anywhere grind and eat anything. an alternative identity still connected to the whole.
groinkick:
--- Quote from: jonas on June 23, 2018, 07:28:02 PM --- You seriously think 13 is randomly going to pop up as the number when 13 wizards are the max to work on one spell? So we'll have 13... but you guys stand back while us seven work this mortal spellframe that you can't work on with us.... and the idea of the WC is kinda laughable to be put that way, they break their own rules, they have no idea why their laws actually exist, they really wouldn't have any clue to someone whose older then them, someone intentionally secretive, being anything but capable of mortal magic... Do you really think Odin is NOT? Because that's the only point that matters there, not if the council is aware or because they have traditions, can he pull off being a mortal wizard? Of course he can, the uncarved block has a mortal wizard in it. Just like Uriel having a human form under the Grace. The Grace being able to be separated so he becomes human shows a differentiation in totality. The mantle currently expressed being able to be changed so Odin can be fae or Aesir or his mortal guise beneath it? It's what GK's appearance is, his mortal formation before death, in some ways similar to Ferro eating a Centurion and ergo able to manifest just that tiny bit of himself. It's his "knight' without separation from person, just identity. Like if MW had her Stick she'd be Baba Yaga with her Mortar and pestle, go anywhere grind and eat anything. an alternative identity still connected to the whole.
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Outsiders are not Mantles
jonas:
--- Quote from: groinkick on June 23, 2018, 07:50:28 PM ---Outsiders are not Mantles
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What is MW? What is a mask of identity based on things inside reality that cause fear, or those things that loathsomely cause death? All they have manifest as are 'Mantles' so far. Besides, Mantle is too limited. Grace also can be worn. And take away the subtle structure of the mantle and it's really no different from a possession. Fearbringer was a mantle of fear cause or felt by Molly, When Hwwbh manifest he did the same thing. Some of his aspects are actually found quite easily in Cat Sith,(his mouth, also he's manifesting Naagloshi..) hence him later being able to be the one controlling Sith with the 'look behind you' joke. It was a double ontondra to his identity. And the second time he's toyed with Harry til Harry 'wins', quite intentionally.
groinkick:
--- Quote from: jonas on June 23, 2018, 07:59:47 PM ---What is MW?
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MW? Well my opinion is she, like other Sidhe started small, and grew bigger over time, and then obtained many Mantles. Either that or a very early mortal who obtained power via worship, sacrifice, or obtaining Mantles over eons or all three. Or a celestial Being like a Dragon.
--- Quote ---What is a mask of identity based on things inside reality that cause fear, or those things that loathsomely cause death?
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Much of Summer and Winter are weather conditions, and life cycles that happen on Earth manifested into Beings. Fear, and death are part of life, it doesn't have to mean they are Outsiders
--- Quote ---All they have manifest as are 'Mantles' so far. Besides, Mantle is too limited. Grace also can be worn. And take away the subtle structure of the mantle and it's really no different from a possession. Fearbringer was a mantle of fear cause or felt by Molly, When Hwwbh manifest he did the same thing. Some of his aspects are actually found quite easily in Cat Sith,(his mouth, also he's manifesting Naagloshi..) hence him later being able to be the one controlling Sith with the 'look behind you' joke. It was a double ontondra to his identity. And the second time he's toyed with Harry til Harry 'wins', quite intentionally.
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The debate about Mantles has been going on since I've been on the forums. It's tough to say what is, and is not a Mantle especially when you get into the realm of Angels, Dragons, TWG, and Outsiders. Mantles as we know them are from within the known universe while the Angels, and Outsiders were supposed to have existed before time itself. That's the big difference between Outsiders and Beings like Odin. Jim said the Sidhe were created for a purpose... Created meaning they are temporary, they haven't always existed while TWG, Angels, Outsiders were around before time.
Avernite:
--- Quote from: jonas on June 23, 2018, 03:16:17 AM ---It's a theory, just like evolution. I'm citing the solution as viable, everything else is evidence already made fact, unless you'd actually try to point out any fallibles in the facts I've presented, in which case your free to do so.
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A random wild guess that may or may not even fit the books is nothing like a scientific theory, sorry.
Mother Winter and the Gatekeeper are rather clearly in the first line of defence against Outsiders. Now, they may be based on something from Outside crossing over, but much more likely seems that they are instead emergent features of reality; there is a reality and not-reality (Outside) and so they have to be separate. Something, or someone, has to stand on that line and maintain it - Winter and the Gatekeeper, at this time, as the prime champions of reality rather than Outside.
And I don't think Nyarlathotep would like to be tied down at the Outer Gates so much.
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