The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
WAG.... Murphy has moved on
Mira:
--- Quote from: Arjan on July 07, 2018, 04:58:18 AM ---If the sword does not accept you you can not abuse it, you can not even touch it. Unless it was made vulnerable before.
So it can only be made vulnerable by someone accepted by the sword. Someone who was going to act with the sword. A de facto knight.
In that sense Harry was a knight. The sword trusted him to do the right thing and he did not.
--- End quote ---
Not necessarily, if you go back and read what Michael said when it happened. He said a Holy Sword wouldn't allow itself to be misused. He didn't say anything about a Knight misusing it, Harry's attempt merely made it vulnerable so Lea could pick it up.. This opened the door for her gifting Bianca with it at the party, in turn she wanted to do a human sacrifice with it, no Knights there, the mere act of killing an innocent would have broken it completely.
The Sword of Faith wouldn't let Susan a half/vamp touch it, but Harry, not a Knight, though he received it from from Shiro, handled it, he didn't abuse it, so it wasn't made vulnerable so someone like Susan could touch it.
Arjan:
--- Quote from: Mira on July 07, 2018, 11:21:39 AM ---Not necessarily, if you go back and read what Michael said when it happened. He said a Holy Sword wouldn't allow itself to be misused. He didn't say anything about a Knight misusing it, Harry's attempt merely
--- End quote ---
Not merely, this is absolute essential.
--- Quote ---made it vulnerable so Lea could pick it up.. This opened the door for her gifting Bianca with it at the party, in turn she wanted to do a human sacrifice with it, no Knights there, the mere act of killing an innocent would have broken it completely.
The Sword of Faith wouldn't let Susan a half/vamp touch it, but Harry, not a Knight, though he received it from from Shiro, handled it, he didn't abuse it, so it wasn't made vulnerable so someone like Susan could touch it.
--- End quote ---
Harry telling himself he is no knight means nothing. It is all about human free willed choice and the sword can give you the opportunity to choose. And with choices actions have more meaning than words.
Knighthood is not something bestowed upon you, it is a choice you make. And that is the only rule.
At the moment you pick up the sword, the sword accepts you and you decide to do something with it you are the knight. Even if only for a few minutes. Even if you are not a perfect knight. Even if you tell yourself you are not.
And it is not about the final act, the killing of an innocent. Every monster can do that if it is made vulnerable. It is about the first act, making it vulnerable in the first place. No monster can do so.
The only one who can do so is the one trusted by the sword in the first place, the knight.
groinkick:
Upon reading the scene again it may have been Michael who allowed it to happen by voluntarily dropping the Sword which allowed another mortal to acquire it (Harry) who then screwed up.
Mira:
--- Quote from: groinkick on July 07, 2018, 05:33:16 AM ---Harry like Merlin was later entrusted with the Swords. He must have been considered worthy to be so. Unless the rule is any mortal who comes in contact with a Sword can unmake it regardless if they are a Knight or not.
In this instance Harry was entrusted with the Sword, and like Murphy he failed.
--- End quote ---
Harry is considered worth to be custodian of the Swords, but that in no way makes him a Knight. Murphy was considered to be worthy of being a Knight for one night, refused any offer to be one full time... However that doesn't make her a custodian, as stated by Uriel and Michael, that she took upon herself.
--- Quote ---Harry telling himself he is no knight means nothing. It is all about human free willed choice and the sword can give you the opportunity to choose. And with choices actions have more meaning than wo
--- End quote ---
You are not taking into account the reaction of the Swords to the person who touches them.. In Harry's case, though he has handled two of the three Swords, they have never lighted up to his touch. The Sword of Faith did light up in it's sheath in the presence of the enemy while on his back, but that wasn't a job offer, and Harry didn't take it as such.. It did light up a little while later when Murphy touched it, Harry immediately took that as a job offer..
--- Quote ---Knighthood is not something bestowed upon you, it is a choice you make. And that is the only rule.
--- End quote ---
No, you've got that a little backwards, the Almighty or one of his Agents have to bestow the Knighthood first... Only then can the potential Knight chose to accept or not accept the job offer for however long... Like Susan, when she touched the Sword of Faith before it totally rejected her, only later in Changes when though Harry she was chosen to a Knight for a night to go and save her daughter did the Sword allow her to make the choice...
--- Quote ---And it is not about the final act, the killing of an innocent. Every monster can do that if it is made vulnerable. It is about the first act, making it vulnerable in the first place. No monster can do so.
--- End quote ---
I believe that is what I said, Harry misusing it made it vulnerable, then Bianca and company could proceed to use it in a sacrifice and unmake it. If it had been stolen from Michael and taken to the party, I doubt that they would have been able to even begin to use it in such a way.
--- Quote ---At the moment you pick up the sword, the sword accepts you and you decide to do something with it you are the knight. Even if only for a few minutes. Even if you are not a perfect knight. Even if you tell yourself you are not.
--- End quote ---
No, Harry kept it on his back on the island even with the idea of trading it for Ivy, but that did not make him a Knight.
Arjan:
--- Quote from: Mira on July 07, 2018, 09:11:33 PM --- Harry is considered worth to be custodian of the Swords, but that in no way makes him a Knight. Murphy was considered to be worthy of being a Knight for one night, refused any offer to be one full time... However that doesn't make her a custodian, as stated by Uriel and Michael, that she took upon herself.
--- End quote ---
That does not mean she wasn't one. She took the responsibility when there was no alternative. That means she was the de facto custodian with all the responsibilities that brings.
As soon as you end up with one of the swords it is your responsibility.
--- Quote ---You are not taking into account the reaction of the Swords to the person who touches them..
--- End quote ---
On the contrary, that reaction is everything. Does the sword accept you? That is what count, not some angelic appointment because that is rarely available.
--- Quote ---In Harry's case, though he has handled two of the three Swords, they have never lighted up to his touch.
--- End quote ---
Lightning up is encouraging but not burning counts for a lot. It means you can try. It is after all your free willed decision.
The sword did not light up when Murphy picked it up at the end but it certainly showed enthusiasm when wielded.
--- Quote ---The Sword of Faith did light up in it's sheath in the presence of the enemy while on his back, but that wasn't a job offer, and Harry didn't take it as such..
--- End quote ---
The sword might have known Harry was not interested.
--- Quote ---It did light up a little while later when Murphy touched it, Harry immediately took that as a job offer.. No, you've got that a little backwards, the Almighty or one of his Agents have to bestow the Knighthood first... Only then can the potential Knight chose to accept or not accept the job offer for however long... Like Susan, when she touched the Sword of Faith before it totally rejected her, only later in Changes when though Harry she was chosen to a Knight for a night to go and save her daughter did the Sword allow her to make the choice...
--- End quote ---
There is no reason to believe such a thing. The sword can accept or reject wielders according to its nature. Harry explains this to Susan, she had to act out of love to wield the sword of love.
There is no badge of knighthood that needs an archangel to be transferred or something like that. There is the sword, that is your badge of knighthood.
--- Quote ---I believe that is what I said, Harry misusing it made it vulnerable, then Bianca and company could proceed to use it in a sacrifice and unmake it. If it had been stolen from Michael and taken to the party, I doubt that they would have been able to even begin to use it in such a way.No, Harry kept it on his back on the island even with the idea of trading it for Ivy, but that did not make him a Knight.
--- End quote ---
If Harry had taken the sword to fight Nicodemus and the sword had accepted him he would have been a knight, no heavenly appointment needed, just a free willed choice to take the responsibility.
If you have the sword, it accepts you and you decide to do something knightly you are the knight. It probably was no accident you got it in the first place anyway.
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