The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
WAG.... Murphy has moved on
groinkick:
--- Quote from: Quantus on July 06, 2018, 12:16:08 PM ---Id go with that. They still follow Rules, just Rules that we wee mortals have difficulty understanding. Or TWG informed the knights somewhere/somehow along the line (seems like the sort of thing the rules would allow the Knights to know).
That's how you destroy Amoracchius (aka the Sword of Love), which as cold-hearted murder of an innocent is arguably a supremely Loveless Act. The Sword of Faith is Destroyed by Faithlessness, or an act of treachery (per SmF). Im guessing the Sword of Hope would be destroyed by an Act of Despair where somebody would need to commit suicide on it.
But the other aspect is that, per GP, a Swords destruction is a two-stage thing. First it needs to be made Vulnerable through mis-use, rendering it a mundane sword the way Harry did with Lea that time. Then, once a wielder has exposed it the final destruction can be done, which was where Mavra was going to murder an innocent with it. It's possible that Nic was hoping Murphy's strike would be enough internal/emotional betrayal to do the deed, but I think it more likely that he just went for the lesser Win. Even if the Sword's magic/spirit wasnt permanently destroyed it should have taken months or years to reforge the Sword into something that would actually threaten him; ensuring that one of the defunct swords stays defunct is a Win for him, especially now when all the Big powers are realizing the clock is almost out, so a few years more is all that really matters.
--- End quote ---
I have to disagree.
I do agree that the Sword must first become vulnerable via the Knight misusing it. Harry was a Knight for a few moments, and then violated the Sword. If a Knight was killed and the Sword recovered by an enemy I don't think they could destroy it. It would either be summoned by an Angel or the Sword could protect itself from said villain. So it must first be made vulnerable by the Knight, then after that it can be unmade.
The disagreement is how to unmake the Sword. I think killing any innocent with any of the Swords will unmake them.
--- Quote from: peregrine on July 06, 2018, 03:30:22 PM ---Nic may have wanted to unmake the sword, but he had things to do, so going out of his way and delaying his mission wasn't going to happen. Especially if he expected to get his hands on upwards of half a dozen other artifacts on par with the Swords.
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Could be but I don't know. He was going to be leaving with Harry. Why not just take it and murder one of his vanilla followers who were back at their make shift base? I think he error'd.
Mr. Death:
--- Quote from: groinkick on July 06, 2018, 05:42:45 PM ---I have to disagree.
I do agree that the Sword must first become vulnerable via the Knight misusing it. Harry was a Knight for a few moments, and then violated the Sword. If a Knight was killed and the Sword recovered by an enemy I don't think they could destroy it. It would either be summoned by an Angel or the Sword could protect itself from said villain. So it must first be made vulnerable by the Knight, then after that it can be unmade.
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We know this to be true -- Lea outright says she couldn't even have picked it up if Harry hadn't made it vulnerable, and Fid outright burns Susan in Death Masks when she tries to pick it up. So apparently, monsters and such simply can't touch the thing if it's not vulnerable.
Mira:
--- Quote from: Mr. Death on July 06, 2018, 06:04:54 PM ---We know this to be true -- Lea outright says she couldn't even have picked it up if Harry hadn't made it vulnerable, and Fid outright burns Susan in Death Masks when she tries to pick it up. So apparently, monsters and such simply can't touch the thing if it's not vulnerable.
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Harry was never a Knight, not even for a little while, he did however misuse the Sword of Love when he tried to kill Lea with it. It fell out of his hands and Lea was able to pick it up. Michael said that Holy Swords don't allow themselves to be misused. Since Harry misused it when he tried to kill Lea, he made it vulnerable to being unmade, which almost happened at the party.
Arjan:
--- Quote from: Mira on July 06, 2018, 11:59:56 PM ---Harry was never a Knight, not even for a little while, he did however misuse the Sword of Love when he tried to kill Lea with it. It fell out of his hands and Lea was able to pick it up. Michael said that Holy Swords don't allow themselves to be misused. Since Harry misused it when he tried to kill Lea, he made it vulnerable to being unmade, which almost happened at the party.
--- End quote ---
If the sword does not accept you you can not abuse it, you can not even touch it. Unless it was made vulnerable before.
So it can only be made vulnerable by someone accepted by the sword. Someone who was going to act with the sword. A de facto knight.
In that sense Harry was a knight. The sword trusted him to do the right thing and he did not.
groinkick:
--- Quote from: Mira on July 06, 2018, 11:59:56 PM ---Harry was never a Knight, not even for a little while
--- End quote ---
Harry like Merlin was later entrusted with the Swords. He must have been considered worthy to be so. Unless the rule is any mortal who comes in contact with a Sword can unmake it regardless if they are a Knight or not.
In this instance Harry was entrusted with the Sword, and like Murphy he failed.
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