The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
If Ivy dies.....
Mira:
--- Quote ---So the Archive, like a loaded gun, can be handed to a human without them really knowing or caring since the Mortal still gets to Choose how to live - but if you hand a loaded gun to someone in a combat zone, you are promoting them to target anyway so the human will probably cling to the weapon to scare off any would-be attackers.
--- End quote ---
That is why the Senior Council is so careful about it and monitoring Ivy so carefully. I think the bigger question might be if all the humanizing influences Harry has had on her will make the Council reconsider her suitability as a host for the Archive? If the answer is negative, what happens then? Is it something that Ivy can just give up? Will Eb have to execute her? Which brings us back to the original question, what then?
Quantus:
--- Quote from: Mira on June 02, 2018, 03:02:48 PM ---That is why the Senior Council is so careful about it and monitoring Ivy so carefully.
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Given how much they were underestimating her power, I dont actually think they are keeping strong tabs on her. And between her own powers and likely political the limitations imposed by the Accords, Im not sure how much they'd be able to accomplish on her.
--- Quote ---I think the bigger question might be if all the humanizing influences Harry has had on her will make the Council reconsider her suitability as a host for the Archive? If the answer is negative, what happens then? Is it something that Ivy can just give up? Will Eb have to execute her? Which brings us back to the original question, what then?
--- End quote ---
I think we can be confident that the host cannot voluntarily give it up short of the suicide Ivy's mother used. I have doubts as to whether even the Blackstaff could take her in a straight fight, and Im pretty confident the Council has no actual authority over either Ivy Or the Archive. The best they could do is kill her and hope the next Archive that arrises is more amenable to them, which would pretty much make them a full-on Evil Organization of Evil. That's all assuming the Senior Council is ignorant of the Oblivion War, since if they were they'd not want to make it leaderless for span of years or decades that it would take for the new archive to grow into the role.
Mira:
--- Quote ---Given how much they were underestimating her power, I dont actually think they are keeping strong tabs on her. And between her own powers and likely political the limitations imposed by the Accords, Im not sure how much they'd be able to accomplish on her.
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On the contrary, reread Luccio's conversation with Harry about Ivy and the Archive, she doesn't underestimate the power for a second... Harry on the other hand does, mainly because he is coming down on the purely human side of the equation, Ivy is a very human little girl... The dangers of that are clearly set out by Luccio, and she throws in why Bob is so dangerous as well.. Though she did not know at that point in time that Harry had Bob.
--- Quote ---I think we can be confident that the host cannot voluntarily give it up short of the suicide Ivy's mother used. I have doubts as to whether even the Blackstaff could take her in a straight fight, and Im pretty confident the Council has no actual authority over either Ivy Or the Archive. The best they could do is kill her and hope the next Archive that arrises is more amenable to them, which would pretty much make them a full-on Evil Organization of Evil. That's all assuming the Senior Council is ignorant of the Oblivion War, since if they were they'd not want to make it leaderless for span of years or decades that it would take for the new archive to grow into the role.
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I think it most likely way more complicated than you think. According to Luccio the Archive is supposed to be a totally neutral tool, thus it took part as judge in Harry's duel with the Red Court.. Also if merely killing the host solved the problem of who gets control one would think that Nic would have done it when he had the chance, instead he chose to try and damage Ivy's mind until she willingly came over to his side. Granted Nic had other things on his agenda as well at the time like destroying holy swords and taking out holy knights.. Remains to be seen as to whether or not the Archive has some kind of "fail safe," should it go rouge or otherwise go out of control... Further more if one exists no one knows who holds that button...
Quantus:
--- Quote from: Mira on June 04, 2018, 04:41:37 PM ---On the contrary, reread Luccio's conversation with Harry about Ivy and the Archive, she doesn't underestimate the power for a second... Harry on the other hand does, mainly because he is coming down on the purely human side of the equation, Ivy is a very human little girl... The dangers of that are clearly set out by Luccio, and she throws in why Bob is so dangerous as well.. Though she did not know at that point in time that Harry had Bob.
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I dont really know what you are referring to. The conversation Im looking at has Luccio claiming that the council rated her on par with a Fae Lady and Harry said he thought they were underestimating her (granted by his reactions in CD he was likely himself underestimating the Ladies, but whatever).
I think you are talking about the long-term dangers of the Archive as set out by the Council's fears. Im talking about her actual /Power/. Powerful and Dangerous are very different things, especially in the DV.
--- Quote ---I think it most likely way more complicated than you think. According to Luccio the Archive is supposed to be a totally neutral tool, thus it took part as judge in Harry's duel with the Red Court.. Also if merely killing the host solved the problem of who gets control one would think that Nic would have done it when he had the chance, instead he chose to try and damage Ivy's mind until she willingly came over to his side. Granted Nic had other things on his agenda as well at the time like destroying holy swords and taking out holy knights.. Remains to be seen as to whether or not the Archive has some kind of "fail safe," should it go rouge or otherwise go out of control... Further more if one exists no one knows who holds that button...
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I still dont get your point. I never said that killing the host would somehow claim you the Archive for yourself, just that a) I disagree with your assessment that the Council has any affiliation or authority over the Archive beyond them both being members of the Accords, and b) the I dont think the Council would actually have the firepower to Take her Down if they were to actually try an all-out offensive to impose their will upon her.
Mira:
--- Quote ---I think you are talking about the long-term dangers of the Archive as set out by the Council's fears. Im talking about her actual /Power/. Powerful and Dangerous are very different things, especially in the DV.
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I disagree
page 408 Small Favor
--- Quote ---"The Archive was created as a neutral force. A repository of knowledge. But what if Ivy's unique circumstance allows her to ignore those limitations? Imagine the results of the anger and bitterness and desire for revenge of all those lifetimes, combined with the power of the Archive and the restraint of a twelve year old?"
"I'd rather not," I said quietly.
"Nor would I," Luccio said. "That would be a true nightmare. All that knowledge, without conscience to direct it.."
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No she doesn't spell out the Archive's powers on a one to ten scale if that is what you are looking for? However she makes it pretty clear that the Council is well aware of how powerful the Archive is and how dangerous, plus the dangers of havin
--- Quote ---I still dont get your point. I never said that killing the host would somehow claim you the Archive for yourself, just that a) I disagree with your assessment that the Council has any affiliation or authority over the Archive beyond them both being members of the Accords, and b) the I dont think the Council would actually have the firepower to Take her Down if they were to actually try an all-out offensive to impose their will upon her.
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The point is, if Luccio's fears for an out of control Archive comes to pass, someone will have to take it down or the results could be catastrophic for everyone... Ergo, to whom would that take fall? Who has the kind of power needed to do it? Part of the Accords or not, if the Archive became a threat, I am willing to be that Mab would order it's take down, she hates disorder... Plus the Archive is vulnerable, after all Ivy was kidnapped and held prisoner by Nic..
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