The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Are there Shadows in DF, an Amber Question.
Griffyn612:
--- Quote from: groinkick on May 04, 2018, 09:07:19 PM ---
--- Quote from: peregrine on May 04, 2018, 08:58:03 PM ---Only if the split is a divergence rather than a fork. If a Choice can and does go each of two ways, said timelines may be equal in "realness."
--- End quote ---
I think they are equal realness. I wonder how Jim's going to deal with the time travel, Choice deal. If someone goes back in time, and makes changes wouldn't that just put them into an alternate universe? Or does the time travel actually destroy that reality, and put in place an alternate one?
--- End quote ---
I thought the implication from the WoJ was that Free Willed Decisions cause splinterverses, and the comments in the Warrior implied that Free Will is rarely applied.
If so, then it could be that there was one original reality, and a future that was expected, but a Free Willed decision caused it to splinter. That would leave the original timeline, and add the free will result running parallel to it.
Even after a billion splinters, the original timeline should still exist. It's probably not any more special than any of the others, save for it potentially being a happier world where better decisions led to better results. Assuming they would.
peregrine:
Yeah, if we assume that a Choice causes a divergence and going with the flow of Human Nature is the default solution then yeah, we can call one timeline the original and one the divergence. But if we start talking All the Myriad Ways, then every time there is a Choice that can be made, then it both is and is not made, so it's then only a matter of perspective on which is the Prime Reality, or if there is one at all.
I also would be highly skeptical of the idea that the "Original" timeline is going to be the happier one. What's the point of having Free Will if it will only lead to things being worse rather than better?
raidem:
--- Quote ---I thought the implication from the WoJ was that Free Willed Decisions cause splinterverses, and the comments in the Warrior implied that Free Will is rarely applied.
--- End quote ---
In addition to the above, Time Travel and its related paradoxes can stem from 'free willed choices' like killing ones own grandfather per Vadderung. So in my estimation, the future timeline from which Harry came from to go into the past is primal relative to the ones you go back to in the past to participate in, as that past is in some sense Harry's future (not past). Harry did go back into the past to kill his grandfather (fact). So in that example I kinda see that what was once a single line between past to future, becomes a line back to the past with Harry traveling into the past but then with a single event splitting off as a fork but with even the grandfather surviving line being somewhat different than the original past to future line as in that line Harry never fought his grandfather.
This however is deviating from the OP except perhaps these time traveling 'shadows' and relative Primes may exist and are bouncing about. I mean we could have Maggie Sr. in some alternate realities still walking about where she had made different choices than what led her to Malcolm. It isn't just restricted to her. Any of the time traveling agents may be creating effective 'shadows' of themselves due to them making such choices at different points in time. And if they aren't just hopping in time, but hopping realities who knows what characters with what histories we are going to be seeing.
Griffyn612:
--- Quote from: peregrine on May 04, 2018, 09:54:59 PM ---Yeah, if we assume that a Choice causes a divergence and going with the flow of Human Nature is the default solution then yeah, we can call one timeline the original and one the divergence. But if we start talking All the Myriad Ways, then every time there is a Choice that can be made, then it both is and is not made, so it's then only a matter of perspective on which is the Prime Reality, or if there is one at all.
I also would be highly skeptical of the idea that the "Original" timeline is going to be the happier one. What's the point of having Free Will if it will only lead to things being worse rather than better?
--- End quote ---
Yeah, the original would only be "better" if it were following a Divine plan that mortals screwed up. There might also be some that are better in some ways. But they'd all be equal.
raidem:
Well, I agree that we haven't seen the Shadow vs Prime dynamic play out yet. So, it is an open question if Jim is going to adopt something similar.
Although I will say OtherChicago in GS is likely a more Prime reality than the mortal realm, but you don't exactly see mortals existing in it casting shadows of themselves onto other proximate realities as would happen in Amber.
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