The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Your guess at secret power/mantles of the Council
jonas:
That's not a bad representation of it I think.
Imo since black magic is not part of the natural order and usual source of magic it's in fact not represented Inside reality but sponsored from an idea formulated from the outside. Like the entropy curse that summons Hwwbh, it's associated and utilized through things fundamentally part of reality, but the power and entities it calls on are not(no longer? never pulled inside? Somehow kept separate even though they can manifest inside?) part of reality.
And I do think part of that source is Nemesis herself. The fae are all about being a fundamentally part of magic itself, if magic itself is the key... and Fae changing when they should not be able to is the effect, then i'd say the things that eventually replace warlocks are the same things trying to replace the fae.
As to the Stick, I agree. I've always read the scene were she proclaims "not my knight." to be a literal statement.
Imo the Knights come from part of the overall breaking down of a singular Grace into layered Mantles. The Knight's basically represent the good or bad lever of choice that angels actually possess. Though that might not be the best example. The WK seems to be Mab's mortal choice/spiritual connection. Where as WL has one inside being actively subsumed allowing her to make electives like trying to change the method of getting Sidhe soldiers. And for MW... idk, cause i'd say the with the Sitck she can Baba Yaga it up and go anywhere, eat anything. Though i'd still say it has an original identity attached to it, the Knight whom was Before.
..Which reminds me, Sentient is a bad word here cause most supernatural spirits can no longer be described that way though they can talk and interact like it. Forget sentience, does it have an identity?
Quantus:
--- Quote from: jonas on May 12, 2018, 08:38:38 PM ---That's not a bad representation of it I think.
Imo since black magic is not part of the natural order and usual source of magic it's in fact not represented Inside reality but sponsored from an idea formulated from the outside. Like the entropy curse that summons Hwwbh, it's associated and utilized through things fundamentally part of reality, but the power and entities it calls on are not(no longer? never pulled inside? Somehow kept separate even though they can manifest inside?) part of reality.
And I do think part of that source is Nemesis herself. The fae are all about being a fundamentally part of magic itself, if magic itself is the key... and Fae changing when they should not be able to is the effect, then i'd say the things that eventually replace warlocks are the same things trying to replace the fae.
As to the Stick, I agree. I've always read the scene were she proclaims "not my knight." to be a literal statement.
Imo the Knights come from part of the overall breaking down of a singular Grace into layered Mantles. The Knight's basically represent the good or bad lever of choice that angels actually possess. Though that might not be the best example. The WK seems to be Mab's mortal choice/spiritual connection. Where as WL has one inside being actively subsumed allowing her to make electives like trying to change the method of getting Sidhe soldiers. And for MW... idk, cause i'd say the with the Sitck she can Baba Yaga it up and go anywhere, eat anything. Though i'd still say it has an original identity attached to it, the Knight whom was Before.
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There's a WOJ that the Knight Mantles are more of a Created thing, something carved off the Immortal's mantle. The WOJ in question confirmed that the Erlking could absolutely make a Knight if he wanted, though it would be significantly less powerful that the Winter Knight who has 3 queens contributing.
--- Quote ---..Which reminds me, Sentient is a bad word here cause most supernatural spirits can no longer be described that way though they can talk and interact like it. Forget sentience, does it have an identity?
--- End quote ---
It's not "Sentience" itself that derail's things in my experience, it's getting it confused with the DV's very specific definition of "Free Will".
I dont think it has Sentience in the sense of self-Identity or Awareness, using the following WOJ about the gates as a comparison; it appears to have less awareness than the Gates /might/ have (as described below) so I think it's a lot more fully inanimate. That being said, Harry definitely got a weird vibe from it that time in Changes.
--- Quote ---
2015 Grid Daily interview
The Gate seems like something that, if it didn’t start with a consciousness, would develop it over time. Is that the case?
It probably is, but the consciousness of an inanimate object like that is mostly like that of a mountain. “I AM HERE.” And it’s just increasingly aware of its here-ness. The Gate actually exists very differently than what Harry saw, but that’s how Harry has to interpret it because it’s far out in the Nevernever. Your mind has to put things into terms it can understand or you go squirrely. Harry’s got a very good mind for reducing things to simple ideas. Which most of the Senior Council would say with a roll of their eyes.
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jonas:
Yes, EK could, because he never carved off that mortal choice, same as Odin I believe.(which Woj would more or less confirm) There are 4 mortal choices floating around Fairie. And specifically, the queens and ladies are only a part of the Mothers power, we know they spun off all the lesser mantles, including then, giving the Queen the ability to make the Knight. The '3 queens' don't contribute, The two graces in opposition(tell me creator and destroyer are not archangel material, if not more) are broke down to maintain balance between the two with plenty of insulation filler in between. So Knights are indeed a created thing, from a mantle, from a grace...
Although it seems to play into the whole fallen shadow/ earthly mirror thing as part of the reason Knight's exist too.
Morenath:
--- Quote from: Quantus on April 26, 2018, 01:00:24 PM ---Not true. He became blackstaff "in 1884-1885 somewhere in there" but was the Captain of the Wardens prior to that (during the events of Fistful of Warlocks)
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Come on, pal. Think... he had to beat out Klaus at the start of Summer Knight. Remember? The Merlin had 3 plans and the first was replacing the guy from Archangel, Simon Petrovich.
Quantus:
--- Quote from: Morenath on May 15, 2018, 05:18:29 AM ---Come on, pal. Think... he had to beat out Klaus at the start of Summer Knight. Remember? The Merlin had 3 plans and the first was replacing the guy from Archangel, Simon Petrovich.
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Wow, nice work necromancer :P
I noted the mistake further down the thread, I had originally thought the claim was that McCoy was Blackstaff before joining the White Council as a whole, not just the SC.
--- Quote from: Quantus on April 26, 2018, 08:37:45 PM ---
--- Quote from: peregrine on April 26, 2018, 03:17:30 PM ---
--- Quote from: Quantus on April 26, 2018, 01:00:24 PM ---
--- Quote from: exartiem on April 26, 2018, 12:23:51 PM ---Eb was Blackstaff before he joined the Senior Council.
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Not true. He became blackstaff "in 1884-1885 somewhere in there" but was the Captain of the Wardens prior to that (during the events of Fistful of Warlocks)
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Yeah, but Captain of the Wardens is not a member of the Senior Council.
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Sorry, my brain completely blanked over the word "Senior" this morning, thought they were saying he was Blackstaff before joining the Council (as a whole) in the first place. There just wasnt enough blood in my Caffeine System.... :P
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