Projections: Time Travel Moving Forward

[Rasins]

I want Harry to go back in time, trip up Sue, which causes her to die.

[nedserD C B yrraH]

One book that changes they way we see many events throughout the series. I want to see how early cases were going from outside Harry's POV. I want to see how bad things would have been if any of his cases went the other way. Like what would have happened if he hadn't stopped Victor Sells and the 3 Eye went nation wide, if the FBI went furry vigilante, or if Bianca's plan had worked out better for her. The most obvious would be to go back to PG and fix the intentional plot holes. But I would love to see more of Bianca's plan or the powers that started Victor or Denton down their path of twisting intentions.

Actual prediction: one book that follow the TL of most of the series, elucidating the motivations of many players without giving away too much. Late in the series, probably after the wrestling one, which will give us a look back at the series as a whole, in a way that Mirror Mirror gives us Dresden but for a small difference a la It's a Wonderful Life.

[Lost Merlin]

So its looking like people are thinking that the time travel book will have some major implications to the whole series.  Do you guys think that we are dealing with a stable time loop or that once harry goes back he will come back to a different 'present' based on his actions in the past. 

[Kindler]

So its looking like people are thinking that the time travel book will have some major implications to the whole series.  Do you guys think that we are dealing with a stable time loop or that once harry goes back he will come back to a different 'present' based on his actions in the past.

I predict a stable time loop. A case of this: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/YouAlreadyChangedThePast
It would keep the current canon stable, but would have an impact on how Harry perceives himself, and likely remove some lingering doubts and self-flagellative tendencies ("If only I had done X, I could have Y," etc.) If Harry changes events too much, then it could have drastic effects on the present, like Harry no longer being the Winter Knight, never becoming the Warden, the Red Court still hanging around, et cetera. I don't think the series needs a reset button; the only thing I can think of that did it well was the SyFy show Eureka, and that was sort of necessary because it was drowning in too many unsolvable plot issues.

[Lost Merlin]

I predict a stable time loop. A case of this: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/YouAlreadyChangedThePast
It would keep the current canon stable, but would have an impact on how Harry perceives himself, and likely remove some lingering doubts and self-flagellative tendencies ("If only I had done X, I could have Y," etc.) If Harry changes events too much, then it could have drastic effects on the present, like Harry no longer being the Winter Knight, never becoming the Warden, the Red Court still hanging around, et cetera. I don't think the series needs a reset button; the only thing I can think of that did it well was the SyFy show Eureka, and that was sort of necessary because it was drowning in too many unsolvable plot issues.

Loved that show.  Sad that Netflix and SyFy didn't renew. 

[Kindler]

Oh, it was great. Nice, family-friendly content with fun science-fictiony elements. SyFy's made some good stuff in the last decade. Pity they're not doing more of this stuff now. Alphas, Warehouse 13, and Eureka was a great trifecta.

By the way, to clarify my previous post, I wasn't assuming that anyone thought that the Dresden Files has insurmountable plot issues; if anyone thinks that present-altering time travel is cool, I'm not knocking it. I'm just not sure it can work, or is even necessary.

[Lost Merlin]

By the way, to clarify my previous post, I wasn't assuming that anyone thought that the Dresden Files has insurmountable plot issues; if anyone thinks that present-altering time travel is cool, I'm not knocking it. I'm just not sure it can work, or is even necessary.

I think that present-altering time travel can have its places and can drive different parts of a plot.  (see current show Timeless)  I just sometimes feel that if you make the present-changes too big it can seem like a cop out or getting the writer out of a corner they got stuck in.  It is much harder to use in a positive way.  It reminds me of the scene from Misery where Kathy Bates is complaining about the chapter shorts (He didn't get out of the COCKADOODIE CAR!) 

[Kindler]

I think that present-altering time travel can have its places and can drive different parts of a plot.  (see current show Timeless)  I just sometimes feel that if you make the present-changes too big it can seem like a cop out or getting the writer out of a corner they got stuck in.  It is much harder to use in a positive way.  It reminds me of the scene from Misery where Kathy Bates is complaining about the chapter shorts (He didn't get out of the COCKADOODIE CAR!)

That's my biggest complaint about time travel in general. It's too easy to solve narrative issues with "He went back in time, put a pencil on top of a doorknob, and now his wife is alive in the present."

[raidem]

My arguments have been that there has already been time traveling shenanigans that have taken place and we are largely reading the resultant effects.  So, Murphy has already gone back in time to ascend to Mab.  ETC. ETC.  We just need to get to the place in the books where we actually see the send off occur. Now, if you don't like that particular specific the template still stands.  The time travel into the past has already occurred by many entities from very powerful to minor mortals.  This way the series is preserved as read but there can still be minor fluctuations while we read the series due to free will, choices made, etc.  We have to keep in mind that there is the possibility of these other Mirror realities like that which will occur in Mirror Mirror.  These may have every right to exist like our own series, but I think our series read has 'Reader Preference.'

[Lost Merlin]

My arguments have been that there has already been time traveling shenanigans that have taken place and we are largely reading the resultant effects.  So, Murphy has already gone back in time to ascend to Mab.  ETC. ETC.  We just need to get to the place in the books where we actually see the send off occur. Now, if you don't like that particular specific the template still stands.  The time travel into the past has already occurred by many entities from very powerful to minor mortals.  This way the series is preserved as read but there can still be minor fluctuations while we read the series due to free will, choices made, etc.  We have to keep in mind that there is the possibility of these other Mirror realities like that which will occur in Mirror Mirror.  These may have every right to exist like our own series, but I think our series read has 'Reader Preference.'

See I would read this as a stable time loop, although I know that is not the exact definition.  I just don't want to go back in time, come back and have Susan alive and not red-fected, Maggie still around, Molly not WL, Harry not WK etc. 

[WereElephant]

See I would read this as a stable time loop, although I know that is not the exact definition.  I just don't want to go back in time, come back and have Susan alive and not red-fected, Maggie still around, Molly not WL, Harry not WK etc.

Ha, not likely. That would involve Jim being nice to Harry.

[raidem]

See I would read this as a stable time loop, although I know that is not the exact definition.  I just don't want to go back in time, come back and have Susan alive and not red-fected, Maggie still around, Molly not WL, Harry not WK etc.

I agree. This is why I structured my time travel theories with this in mind. The series being read is largely preserved even though there is time travel effects occurring in the background.  I think there is tension in the books where bad guys are trying to derail what we are reading up until the send off.   Then once the send off occurs I think we will see more wiggle room of things become more up in the air but it will involve other timelines more so than just necessarily the history of the one we read.

( I view the tension of the early books as trying to sabotage Harry, Murphy and Marcone and their Fates.  I further see them being intertwined via time traveling plots.  To add further spice and twists to the early books, I place Marcone being descended from Harry and Murphy/Mab, such that entities are trying to kill off Mab/Murphy's son with Harry.) 

[nedserD C B yrraH]

I certainly fall in the Stable Time Loop Camp. I don't think the TT will go beyond the scope of the case files for a few reasons. The first being that traveling through time is difficult and the more time you wish to cover the more energy it would take as per CD. Secondly, I think there is WoJ that Harry will break all the Laws of Magic before the BAT. I assume it will be similar the way he has broken the others, (technically, i.e. Raising Sue, Molly's mind in GS, etc) Thirdly, with Harry fulfilling more Starborn attributes he is becoming more a fulcrum thus making affecting Harry the best way to affect outcomes. Lastly, fixing all the story lines by adding prequels, in essence, feels sloppy and cheap. This series has a structure and I have enjoyed uncovering it.

I would be fine with a Quantum Leap style with either TTHarry being inside Past Harry or maybe helpful janitors in train stations. Esp with Bonnie as his Ziggy being able to remember everything from Harry's memory.

[Rasins]

Actually, I think Jim may use the TT book to let us see how some of the "inconsistencies" really aren't.  LIKE, who fixed little Chicago.  Harry did.

I doubt it'll be the case, but I could see him doing that too.

[nedserD C B yrraH]

I agree. I think TTHarry fixed/ LC. He meets all the criteria for someone to able to fix it and PG is rife with TT explanations and pointed out "inconsistencies."