The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
TT Harry in Proven Guilty
Griffyn612:
--- Quote from: raidem on February 24, 2018, 12:19:37 AM ---One point against Future Harry himself originally fixing Little Chicago is the conservation of history argument. It takes tons of power to go back in time and change significant things in one's own past. I think that pretty much precludes Harry from being the Original Fixer. Now, I could see that there was an Original Fixer and then in a different iteration Future Harry steps in place of this person.
I could also see a different Parallel Harry assisting our Harry out by fixing Little Chicago. This sidesteps the conservation of history argument. It also can sidestep the 'time travel' problem too. In Amber, different parallel worlds don't all have the same clock. So, there can be a parallel world where Harry" is quite advanced and he helps out this other parallel Harry (ourHarry). So, there is no time travel, nor is there conservation of history problems. This can be what is occurring with Cowl. Cowl arises from a parallel world that ticks faster than ours. He cross over into ours to mess things up. It just appears to be time travel when it really isn't.
<<If Shadows (Parallel Worlds) tick at different rates and travel between these are possible, then what appears to be time travel in some instances isn't exactly.>>
*I still argue that traversing between parallel worlds and traversing time can be fashioned into a higher function where there is a temporal component(s) to both.
One other thing to note. We should keep track of Harry's door. The difficulty people have in opening it. The carpet that gets hung up at the door. The door swelling. Etc. It's a bit weird that Jim spends so much time focusing on it. It might end up being a clue.
I know Murphy doesn't have as much trouble opening the door as Harry does.
--- End quote ---
It's not a concern if it's a stable time loop between the two points in time that existed both times the first time.
It's basically the same method that Merlin used to create Demonreach. Five times simultaneously at once. Only in Harry's case, the bridge (probably Demonreach) will exist in both times simultaneously, which will allow him to walk out into the world in the time of PG the first time it happened.
Ergo, no need for more complicated first-fixer.
As for power and knowledge of time travel, he's got plenty of each between Alfred, Mab, Vadderung, and Gatekeeper. I'm sure Uriel could help with the non-linear bits as required.
raidem:
Yeah, I had no problem with him doing time travel; the problem was with time travel plus changing his own past significantly. Your example though does sound reasonable. I still prefer someone other than Harry in the same timeline as he to do it. I'd consider a Harry in a Parallel world that ticks faster than ours being a possibility. He didn't have the problem of Little Chicago blowing up in his face, so he helped out our Harry. This would only be if Harry was the person who did it.
If it was Mab or someone else on her level like Vadderung, etc then the conservation of history, time travel concerns are mute.
As to Merlin and Demonreach, Merlin wasn't changing his 'own' past. If Harry is the Fixer and he is Time Traveling to do so, then he is changing his own past which is a distinction that didn't occur with Merlin and Demonreach.
Griffyn612:
--- Quote from: raidem on February 24, 2018, 03:15:57 PM ---Yeah, I had no problem with him doing time travel; the problem was with time travel plus changing his own past significantly. Your example though does sound reasonable. I still prefer someone other than Harry in the same timeline as he to do it. I'd consider a Harry in a Parallel world that ticks faster than ours being a possibility. He didn't have the problem of Little Chicago blowing up in his face, so he helped out our Harry. This would only be if Harry was the person who did it.
If it was Mab or someone else on her level like Vadderung, etc then the conservation of history, time travel concerns are mute.
As to Merlin and Demonreach, Merlin wasn't changing his 'own' past. If Harry is the Fixer and he is Time Traveling to do so, then he is changing his own past which is a distinction that didn't occur with Merlin and Demonreach.
--- End quote ---
We don't know the times Merlin completed the spell. It might have been across the entire existence of Earth, or it could have been within his lifetime. He could very well have changed his own destiny/history and we wouldn't have a way of knowing.
Of course, the big difference between the two would be that Merlin was working during the time merges, whereas Harry wouldn't be.
raidem:
How about this option. Merlin from 5 (or more) parallel realities participated in the same event. They were linked in purpose and synced w/ some merged mind.
Think of what Harry could do with the other Harry's he encounters in Skin Game in his dreamscape with Molly. If Harry could work with them, together they could each do separate jobs, in different times, all at once. If Harry and they are able to learn to time travel. They could each go to different times to do a similar thing that Merlin was able to do.
It definitely makes things more understandable if the working is distributed and coordinated with his 'Shadow' selves.
YoungestGruff:
Possible counterpoint: Time Travel seems to be treated different than parallel universes. See Harry's comment in Proven Guilty; roughly "We're all time travelers. We just pulled into the passing lane for a while." (Granted, that's a flippant Harry comment. But still.)
More to the point: when Merlin did assemble Demonreach, Bob played it as a video of him weaving things simultaneously. If it was a bunch of alt!Merlins working in tandem, that's the sort of thing that Bob could easily explain, even to the idiot monkey that is Harry. Given that Merlin creating time loops like nobody's business could set up Harry doing the same thing. . . Something something QED.
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Mirror Mirror will have something to say about this. Or at least heavily imply.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version